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clasificar os documentos

Discussion in 'Português (Portuguese)' started by William Stein, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. William Stein Senior Member

    San Jose, Costa Rica
    American English
    Hi everybody,

    This is from a Brazilian law about the government's duty to disclose information:

    §1o As razões de negativa de acesso a informação classificada indicarão o fundamento legal da classificação, a autoridade que a classificou e o código de indexação do documento classificado.
    § 2o Os órgãos e entidades disponibilizarão formulário padrão para apresentação de recurso e de pedido de desclassificação.
    Art. 20. O acesso a documento preparatório ou informação nele contida, utilizados como fundamento de tomada de decisão ou de ato administrativo, será assegurado a partir da edição do ato ou decisão.
    Parágrafo único. O Ministério da Fazenda e o Banco Central do Brasil classificarão os documentos que embasarem decisões de política econômica, tais como fiscal, tributária, monetária e regulatória.

    §1 refers to "classified information" in the sense of "made secret" and "declassificação" refers to declassification (make publicly accessible again). The problem is the "parágrafo único". What does classificarão mean there? It's hard to believe that this law would force the Bank and Ministry of Finance to classify as secret all the documents used as basis for their economic policy decisions, since that would be contrary to the objective of transparency.

    §1 – The statement of reasons for denying access to classified information shall indicate the legal basis for the classification, the authority that classified it and the index code of the classified document.
    § 2 – The organs and entities shall provide a standard form for filing the appeal and requesting delassification.
    Article 20 – Access to the draft document or information used to explain the grounds for the decision or administrative act shall be ensured through a printout of the act or decision.
    Single paragraph. The Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Brazil shall ???
     
  2. mglenadel

    mglenadel Senior Member

    Rio de Janeiro
    Brazilian Portuguese
    "The problem is the "parágrafo único". What does classificarão mean there? It's hard to believe that this law would force the Bank and Ministry of Finance to classify as secret all the documents used as basis for their economic policy decisions, since that would be contrary to the objective of transparency".

    The law does not so much "force" the entities to classify the information, but rather allows them do do so. As for transparency, the idea is not to disclose everything, but rather to control the disclosure of information.
     
  3. William Stein Senior Member

    San Jose, Costa Rica
    American English
    It all depends on the meaning of "classificarão". The future tense is usually translated as "shall classify" which is a form of imperative (an order), whereas "pode classificar" is usually translated as "may (is allowed to) classify.
    Can "classify" mean something else besides "to make secret" here? It seems illogical, because if there's anything that should be transparent, it's the reason why the government changes its policies. For example, if you want to know why the Federal Government decides to raise the rate of income taxes, they should be able to explain why rather than saying "That's classified information, we just felt like doing it".
     
  4. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    I think it is poorly written, anyway, but maybe you should read "classificarão" as "vão decidir se tal documento deve ou não ser classificado". I may be wrong, though.
     
  5. William Stein Senior Member

    San Jose, Costa Rica
    American English
    I see, it could mean The Bank and Ministry of Finance shall classify the documents in the appropriate category (secret or not). Maybe this would work:

    The Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Brazil shall be responsible for the classification of the documents on which they base their economic policy decisions, such as fiscal, tax, monetary and regulatory policies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  6. Carfer

    Carfer Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Portuguese - Portugal
    There's more than one level of classification. 'They shall classify' doesn't mean that the information shall be made entirely secret. Rather, classification may restraint the categories of people who have access to that information and set the degree of secrecy, actually controlling how information is disclosed. I think that's acceptable. Just imagine what a storm the premature disclosure of a preliminary study by the Bank of Brazil on, say, monetary policy, could unleash.
     
  7. William Stein Senior Member

    San Jose, Costa Rica
    American English
    Hi Carfer,

    So my translation shoudl work, right?: The Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Brazil shall be responsible for the classification of the documents on which they base their economic policy decisions, such as fiscal, tax, monetary and regulatory policies.
     
  8. Carfer

    Carfer Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Portuguese - Portugal
    Hi, William

    I think so
     
  9. William Stein Senior Member

    San Jose, Costa Rica
    American English
    Sorry about the delayed response, somebody stole the cables and the internet was down for two days, if you can believe that!

    You're right that there are several categories in which information can be "classified", and it can even be "classified" as not secret all, but for some reason "classified" often is a short way of saying "classified as secret/top secret".

    This law [http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_ato2011-2014/2012/Decreto/D7724.htm] is not mainly about protecting secrecy but about promoting transparency and limiting the government's rights to declare something top secret or secret. For example, in the part I'm translating now any classification as top secret has to be reviewed at regular intervals (to make sure that it is still necessary):
    Art. 47. Compete à Comissão Mista de Reavaliação de Informações:
    I - rever, de ofício ou mediante provocação, a classificação de informação no grau ultrassecreto ou secreto ou sua reavaliação, no máximo a cada quatro anos; [...]

    That's why it's surprising that they seem to go out of their way to tell the National Bank and Ministry of Finance "classificarão" the documents on which they base their policies. "classificarão" is usually an imperative, right?: They "shall" classify. The idea of "they are responsible for" means that they have the authority to classify such documents at their discretion (based on Joca's explanation: eles vão classificando os documentos...)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  10. LuizLeitao

    LuizLeitao Senior Member

    São Paulo, Brazil
    Portuguese
    Parágrafo único. O Ministério da Fazenda e o Banco Central do Brasil classificarão os documentos que embasarem decisões de política econômica, tais como fiscal, tributária, monetária e regulatória. It seems to me that the sense here is"select", "designate". Classificado (classified) does not have the meaning of "secret" in Portuguese.
     
  11. William Stein Senior Member

    San Jose, Costa Rica
    American English
    Hi Luiz,

    Look at the whole quote in the initial question. Classificado and "declassificado" are clearly used in the sense of made secret/released from secrecy (maybe it's influenced by English but that's obviously the intended meaning here):
    §1o As razões de negativa de acesso a informação classificada indicarão o fundamento legal da classificação, a autoridade que a classificou e o código de indexação do documento classificado.
    § 2o Os órgãos e entidades disponibilizarão formulário padrão para apresentação de recurso e de pedido de desclassificação.

    Then the law takes about all the "graus de sigilio"
     
  12. LuizLeitao

    LuizLeitao Senior Member

    São Paulo, Brazil
    Portuguese
    Sure, William, mere literal transcriptions of English words have become pretty usual here. So, it could be that those who wrote the law meant "secret", even though officially (in all dictionaries) "classificado" stands only for "arrange sth in groups/decide what kind of group sth belongs to", or as in "classified ads".
     
  13. Carfer

    Carfer Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Portuguese - Portugal
    Exacto, não tem, mas informação classificada é habitualmente informação sigilosa e é nesse sentido que a expressão é geralmente entendida, sobretudo quando falamos de informação sensível detida por entidades públicas. Aliás, é para determinar o grau de sigilo que se classifica a informação e uma coisa leva à outra. Acho que nisso o William tem razão.
    Aliás, também em inglês comum 'classified' não significa necessariamente secreto ou sigiloso. Mas em matéria de informações, sim, significa, como aliás também significa em português nesse domínio específico (pelo menos em Portugal significa. Se eu disser que uma informação é classificada, quero dizer que é sigilosa. Pode não ser secreta em sentido estrito porque pode estar noutro grau de classificação que não o secreto ou ultra-secreto, mas é sigilosa/secreta em sentido lato)

    P.S. Ainda não tive tempo de ler a lei, mas, numa pesquisa rápida, verá que é esse o sentido. Veja os títulos do capítulo V e da respectiva Secção I
    CAPÍTULO V
    DAS INFORMAÇÕES CLASSIFICADAS EM GRAU DE SIGILO
    Seção I
    Da Classificação de Informações quanto ao Grau e Prazos de Sigilo


    E veja o artigo 28º

    Art. 28. Os prazos máximos de classificação são os seguintes:
    I - grau ultrassecreto: vinte e cinco anos;
    II - grau secreto: quinze anos; e
    III - grau reservado: cinco anos.
     
  14. LuizLeitao

    LuizLeitao Senior Member

    São Paulo, Brazil
    Portuguese
    Yes, I do agree with you guys. Classified as secret. Bingo!

    It was nice discussing this thread with you.
     

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