Discussione in 'Italian-English' iniziata da alfio, 6 Aprile 2005.
Come si dice in inglese "codice fiscale"?
Tax code? Boh.
taxpayer's code (number)
In the US, the equivalent role to the Italian "Codice Fiscale" is played by the Social Security Number. It is an identifier unique to each person that is used in all manners of official and not-so-official documents.
The main difference between the two is that the Codice Fiscale can be derived through a deterministic algorithm from a person's name and his/her date and place of birth. There is nothing secret about the Codice Fiscale, and people distribute it freely in lieu of their name. Indeed, it is, essentially, a name equivalent that is guaranteed to be unique.
By contrast, especially in recent years, people try to keep their SSN confidential. You only give it out when you have to, and the organizations that handle people's SSNs treat them as confidential information. This is because a person's SSN is the most useful piece of information for would-be identity thieves, and identity theft has become a big problem in recent years.
I have frequently wondered why the widespread access to people's Codici Fiscali in Italy does not seem to create a problem with identity theft.
In the UK codice fiscale sarebbe tax code. The Social Security Number (SSN) would be National Insurance number (NI). In the UK this is different to your tax code. Your tax code determines the amount of tax you will pay based on your income and circumstances.
Come si potrebbe tradurre? Devo aprire la partita Iva per una società
I would say "VAT identification number". I assume that codice fiscale is irrelevant for other taxes. If not, perhaps "tax identification number". Click.
Codice fiscale = Fiscal code
Partita IVA = VAT number
Si. VAT = IVA.
Value Added Tax.
Quoting Elisa from the other thread:
So I thought one could use one name for both.
Not always "codice fiscale" and "partita I.V.A" coincide. For lots corporations they are different from each other .
Usually in Italy company VAT number and Fiscal Code do not coincide
Ciao a tutti,
can you explain to me
what "codice fiscali" is? I came across it filling in a questionnaire.
It is a fiscal code. A number, or combination of numbers and letters which are specifically linked to one specific person (or company sometimes) for taxation identification purposes.
Would this be an analog of our "Social Security Number" or "Tax ID Number" for a corporation?
Do Italians carry a "fiscal code" card?
It's like the national insurance number in England.
Yes Tim. In Canada it would be the Social Insurance Number - almost exactly the same thing. And yes, we (even foreigners) get a card to carry. It is green and white.
It is absolutely the EASIEST piece of Italian documentation to get -- because as soon as you have it you can be taxed!
It is good to know that there is consistency in the universe.
ANY government on earth will magically become "efficient" when it comes to the harvest of money.
So, back on thread -
So if I see "Codice Fiscale" there is no other way that it can be interpreted?
If you wish to know what your 'codice fiscale' would be, check here.
You can also pretend to be someone else!
Here you can learn how it's computed.
Codice Fiscale is the Tax identification Number or Tax ID and it is a char code (letters and numbers).
"partita IVA" is a code number you personally require to start every trading, industrial or professional activity and deals with taxes;
"fiscal code" is a code automatically assigned to everyone from his/her birthday, composed of numbers and letters, which identifies a person by surname, name, date of birth, residence region and state.
I live in the US. I am ordering something from an Italian website so I left this blank. Will I have trouble getting my merchandise?
By translating "codice fiscale" into "tax number" in Canada or the U.S.(as the discussion forum indicates), one is referring to a "social insurance number."
Giving out such information to anyone is highly dangerous since this is how i.d. theft occurs.
Consequently, I am wondering if another definition in the context of a financial transaction between a university and a student could be "bank account number"?
Codice fiscale has only one meaning in Italian, as it has been well explained above.
Codice fiscale can never be translated as bank account number, just because they are two completely different codes.
If I misunderstood your question, I apologise...
It’s not an ID of any kind. So in reality:
…using just tax code would actually be misleading, but it’s so well established a translation that I feel heretical just typing that.
I often translate the Italian codice fiscale as Tax ID no.
The tax code is certainly not the same thing, as you rightly say, Mark. I didn't know this wrong translation was so well established!
I wouldn't know how to translate the British tax code into Italian; something like codice d'imposta, but I don't think it would mean anything.
I wouldn't know either, as there is nothing comparable in Italy. Deduction are made by employers according to the expected yearly income. If you change job in the course of the year you are adviced to tell the new employer how much income you have already accrued so far. Otherwise, the new employer will make deductions based on what you are earning from the new job (probably on a lower tax bracket than due), leaving you with the chance of paying a huge balance when passing the next tax return.
In addition, there is a fixed amount of income from employment that is tax exempt, and this amount is the same for everybody. If you have additional sources of income you may have to pay taxes on the originally tax exempt income from employment once you pass your tax return.
I have both a Social Security number and a Codice Fiscale (I don't have a partita IVA). I don't give out either, unless required. However I'd also never write my SS no. when asked for a Codice Fiscale or vice-versa (e.g. an on-line purchase for an Italian company), as it wouldn't be acceptable (it wouldn' be the correct combination, as an S.S. no. consists of numbers, and a C.F. is a mixture of letters and numbers). I think that, if a firm sells internationally, it wouldn't/couldn't require a codice fiscale for foreign customers. It is more likely that they'd request a VAT number (or partita IVA, which is the same thing).
I found this rather useful link, explaining what a VAT number is (since it's a European invention): http://traveltips.usatoday.com/vat-number-61927.html
We got into a discussion as to how to say 'codice fiscale' in the 'False Friends' thread here.
Yes; we're missing "main translations" for them, probably because they don't really exist, but if anyone want to have a stab I guess they can do it here. I like your proposal of "taxpayer identification number", @london calling , but I have some reservations about it. I’d go with "code" since it also contains letters (I know, National Insurance Number, but that winds me up too ) and, as far as I know, it doesn't actually correspond to an existing number/code, does it?
"Italian tax ID code" seems like the closest you can get to me.
Sounds like a good call, but I'm not sure it's close enough.
Everyone seems to have a codice fiscale; I have dim memories of queueing for mine, but I'm a bog-standard company employee.
Yes, Taxpayer ID Code/Italian Tax ID code sound about right, as I have also come to the conclusion that we have no direct equivalent and that we must therefore be content with a translation.
When you say it doesn't actually correspond to an existing number/code, do you mean the Italian CF? Sorry, being a bit thick this morning....
I mean there isn’t actually a thing that goes by the name of "taxpayer identification number" in the UK, is there? I don’t think there was when I left.
No, there isn't, you're quite right. In any case, I think you and I agree: we're going to have to use a translation.
I haven't chosen 'unique taxpayer reference' - this is the official term. Yes, it's for self-assessment but it's also for companies. Otherwise, as a paid employee, you have your PAYE number -see below.
All of these are used in combination with your NI number
Why does 'National Insurance number' wind you up, tsoapm? It's a unique number (by the way it's a combination of letters and numbers - although that's irrelevant) and you need it for work and tax.
The term 'tax identification number' is not official.
The closest equivalent would be to say 'your current taxpayer reference PAYE or UTR plus you NI reference' which, of course, is a bit of a mouthful!
I'd go for an unofficial translation as follows:
Numbers don’t have letters in them! (unless you’re using hex or some other system with a base higher than 10)
Yes! but it's called a 'number' even though it isn't!
And this winds me up.
I guess 'PIN number' winds you up too!
Separa i nomi degli utenti con una virgola.