Discussion in 'All Languages' started by MarX, May 17, 2008.
How is it called in other languages?
In Indonesian it's kopi.
In Spanish it's "el café".
Arabic: قهوة (qahwa)
French slang: Cawa (not sure about the spelling! - it's the Arabic word!)
Thanks for the replies so far!
They're very similar.
Did Finnish "borrow" the word from Turkish or the other way around?
Are there other languages which have a P instead of F, W, or V?
Yes Marx,they're very similar. There are other very similar words as well.
I don't know who borrowed the word ''kahve'' .But I should really search that !
In Portuguese: café. In Brazil we very often use it in the diminutive form, um cafezinho, which gives it an affectionate tone.
In Hugarian: kávé.
We (as well as some other European languages during the Ottoman occupation) borrowed the word from Turkish, where it arrived from Arabic. (Coffe coming from the Ethiopian area of Kaffa - I only know the Hungarian way of writing of the area).
In Hebrew: קפה [kafe]
kōhī (h here is similar to the German ich-laut.)
In Tagalog: Kape
Ahh, you also have a P!
Yes! Ka-pe usually 'f' in english words becomes 'p' in Tagalog.
In Indonesian, too.
In fact, many Indonesians seem to have difficulty pronouncing the F-sound, which is represented by both the letters F and V.
That's why it's not unusual to say:
Pèbruari instead of Fèbruari
Nopèmber instead of Novèmber
The words pikir (think), paham (understand), napas (breath) and pasal (chapter), etc. come from (Arabic) fikir, faham, nafas, and fatsal, etc.
But let's not get off topic here.
In Esperanto: kafo.
The place you drink coffee (cafe, coffee house) is called a kafejo.
We even have a verb (kafumi) which basically means to hang out and have coffee with friends / to go for coffee.
Navajo has neither f nor p. The word for coffee came via Spanish and is either gohwééh or ahwééh (depending on dialect), the hw pronounced similar to breathy English wh in when.
Why are you surprised Marx? Tagalog and Bahasa Indonesian are sisters (or brothers) and I am pretty sure that there are some other East Asian languages that have "p" instead of "f" considering the word coffee?
Here is another language with P (transliteration by this site).
Macedonian: kafe (кафе)
Serbian: kafa (кафa)
Bulgarian: kafe (кафе)
In Jewish Iraqi Arabic it's: ka7wa
in Gaelic, we use the English word -- but spell it in the Gaelic way: "cofaidh" (pronounced "Coffee")
In Dutch: koffie
[ie is more or les pronounced as a long i-sound, compare English ee]
Indonesian kopi is a direct loanword from Dutch koffie.
Many times F, which may be written as F, V, or PH becomes P in Indonesian.
I don't know about Turkish but I know that the Finnish "kahvi" is borrowed from Swedish kaffe. In some Finnish dialects it's "kahvee".
As the F-sound doesn't (originally) exist in Finnish it was always changed to "hv" in loan words. There are many examples, like "pihvi" (Swedish biff = beef), "sohva" (sofa) etc. Most of our loan words come from Swedish.
We have many words from Arabic and ''kahve'' is one of them. And here is the etymology of ''kahve'' from Wikipedia:
'' The term was introduced to Europe via the Ottoman Turkish ''kahveh'' which is in turn derived from the Arabic ''qahweh''.The origin of the Arabic term is uncertain; it is either derived from the name of the Kaffa region in western Ethiopia, where coffee was cultivated, or by a truncation of qahwat al-būnn, meaning "wine of the bean" in Arabic ''
This seems to prove that "hv" was the original pronunciation but the Indoeuropean languages changed it to "f" or "ff". Am I wrong?
Exactly Hakro. But I really would like to know why it changed to ''f/ff'' in Indoeuropean languages,that's interesting.It needs some research and I'm really so willing to do that
Do you have any idea about this?
I have no idea about it. Maybe someone else has? If you are willing to do the research, please do it! I'll send you a rose if you find it out.
If anyone really does,we'd really like to hear his/her explanation.
But being selfish,I hope there's nobody who knows. I'm really willing to find it out myself and I'm starting for my research from tomorrow on. I'll be searching books and tracing the professors at school.
I'm so impatient to learn every detail.
In Polish: kawa (pron: kava)
In Norwegian: Kaffe, som dialects kaffi
咖啡-ka1 fei1 in Mandarin. It seems to have been translated phonetically.
Yes, and "pretinho", too.
Italian caffe', Slovenian kava, Croate kafa.
Armenian: սուրճ (pronounced "surch" in Eastern Armenian, "surj" in Western)
Amharic: ቡና (buna)
According to Wiktionary, the Armenian term is onomatopoeic, based on the sound of coffee being sipped. I'm not sure about the origin of the Amharic word.
I would say that the word kahvi in Finnish didn't come to Finland directly from the Turkish word, but that it took the long way: Turkish Kahveh, Italian Caffe, German Kaffee, Swedish Kaffe and finally Finnish Kahvi, the same way the drink itself found its way to Finland. That the spelling is similar is probably due to the fact that neither Finnish nor Turkish have the double-f spelling, the way Swedish, German and Italian have.
кава (кáва) - /kawa/.
Not literary кохве, кохвій (кóхве, кóхвій) - /kochwe, kochwiy/.
Isn't it more likely that the double-f spelling is due to the lack of the sound cluster [hv] in Italian, or whichever European language first adopted the Turkish term kahveh?
In Greek it's «καφές» [ka'fes] (masc.)
Old word for coffee used to be: "feketeleves" = black soup.
"Hátra van még a feketeleves." = The worst thing is still coming.
The last drink of Sultan Soliman's lunch was the coffee. The lord retained by these sentence were arrected and imprisoned in the "Seven Towers" of Istanbul.
And beyond "Café" used in Portugal too, the Southern "Bica" and the Northern "Cimbalino".
In Italy, in Trieste they have a completely different coffee glossary: coffee is called "nero" while cappuccino is called "caffè latte".
In Australia, espresso is called "short black", and Americano is called "long black"*.
*Technically there is a slight different: in the Americano you first put coffee in the cup, than add hot water on it. In the long black you first put hot water then pour espresso on it.
The long black doesn't lose the espresso cream and aroma.
In my Chinese dialect, 咖啡 is pronounced /kʰæ fi/ and this is the "modern" pronunciation. However many people, especially those of the older generations like my uncle, pronounce it /kʰo fi/, that clearly resembles to the English "coffee".
Here's a thread about the etymology of coffee.
Moderator's Note: Dear all, there is also this thread for the same topic: coffee, which has been closed to avoid repetitions. Please try to read that one too, if you want to contribute to this one. Thank you.
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