1. The WordReference Forums have moved to new forum software. (Details)

Colocación objeto_sintagma

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by carlostoledano, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. carlostoledano Junior Member

    español
    Hola de nuevo.
    Estoy escribiendo en inglés y me gustaría saber cual de las siguientes opciones que propongo es la más idónea:

    -We had rejected our planning application by the council.

    -We had our planning application rejected by the council.

    Muchas gracias.
    Un saludo ;)
     
  2. donbill

    donbill Senior Member / Moderator

    South Carolina / USA
    English - American
     
  3. carlostoledano Junior Member

    español
    Gracias donbill

    Por qué la primera frase: '
    We had rejected our planning application by the council. ' es incorrecta?

    Saludos
     
  4. donbill

    donbill Senior Member / Moderator

    South Carolina / USA
    English - American
    En voz activa, el inglés usa el orden sujeto + verbo + complemento directo. We had rejected our planning application me hace pensar que el mensaje tiene que ver con algo que nosotros habíamos hecho: "nosotros habíamos rechazado nuestra propia solicitud". Entonces la frase preposicional by the council no se compagina con la primera parte de la oración. La otra versión, "We had our planning aplicación rejected by the council", deja claro que 'the council' es la entidad que ha rechazado la solicitud. We had rejected = Habíamos rechazado; We had something rejected = se entiende "rechazado por otra persona". La interposición del complemento me dice que se trata de las acciones de otros y no de las nuestras.

    Me imagino que hay muchos foreros que pueden explicártelo mejor que yo, pero ¿esto te ayuda un poco?

    un saludo
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
  5. juan2937 Senior Member

    Spanish
    I wonder if have+object+verb form (past participle) is a causative structure to have somebody do/doing something?

    We had our planning application rejected by the council
    ( it seems that we make the council to do that rejection).Causative structure

    The council rejected our planning application. No question the council rejected our planning application.

    I must have my watch repaired
    I'm going to have my hair cut this afternoon.

    The manager had everybody fill out a form
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  6. donbill

    donbill Senior Member / Moderator

    South Carolina / USA
    English - American
    Interesting, Juan! It can be understood that way. We had our application rejected by the council has two possible meanings: 1) It was rejected by the council, and we suffer because of their rejection; 2) we caused them to do it.

    I find #1 to be the more logical of the two possibilities, but #2 is a possibility that had not occurred to me. Thanks for calling it to my attention.

    Un saludo
     
  7. carlostoledano Junior Member

    español
    Thank you.
    I agree with juan2937. I think we use a causative structure when we refer to things which we don´t do ourselves but ask others.
    For example: 'I had my laptop repaired last week'

    Thank you again.
    Best regards.
     
  8. carlostoledano Junior Member

    español
    Gracias donbill!
     

Share This Page