Communicate, distribute, divide, share > part ?

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Dutch all the above verbs are translated with 'delen' (to part, literally): meedelen (mee = com-), uitdelen (out-part), verdelen/ opdelen (perfective delen, split up), delen...

    That seemed special to me because English uses four different stems/ roots, though - as Berndf pointed out elsewhere - the four verbs, or three of them at least, refer to part indirect - via di- and the other term share. But how about your language? Is there any link with 'part' - or is the part element used in other verbs in your language. Thanks a lot !
     
  2. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    Chinese mainly uses the morpheme 分 (fēn, to divide) for all of these except communicate.

    (Traditional/Simplified unless otherwise stated)

    Divide (root):
    - 分 can be used as a free morpheme to talk about dividing something between people, or dividing something into fragments, or classifying something
    - Examples of words using 分 meaning 'divide' or something similar:
    --分割 fēngē - 'divide' in the sense of cutting something up
    --分身 fēnshēn - to divide yourself into several bodies so that you can 'multitask'
    --劃分/划分 huàfēn - to categorise (might go to the 'distinguish' section below, because there's a thin line which 劃分s the two. :D)

    Part:
    A part which is shared is 份 fēn, which has a different tone and an extra 'human' radical. It is often erroneously used in place of 分.
    -部分 bùfen - a part (in the non-sharing sense); 部 means 'section'

    Communicate is 溝通/沟通 (gōutōng). 溝/沟 means 'canal' or channels for water in general; 通 means 'without obstruction'.

    'Distribute':
    -發/发 fā can be used as a free morpheme to mean 'distribute'
    -Examples:
    --分發/分发 fēnfā - to distribute
    --派發/派发 pàifā - (of objects) to distribute; 派 means the same thing as a morpheme
    --分配 fēnpèi - to distribute (with more of an 'arrangement' sense than 分發); 配 means 'match'
    --分布(standard)/分佈(alternative) fēnbù - to be distributed (in the 'proportion of things or people in different regions' -sense); distribution; 布/佈 means 'covered with'
    --分散 fēnsàn - sparsely distributed; to distribute sparsely; 散 means 'sparse'

    'Share':
    -分 can be used as a free morpheme to mean 'share' (which is basically the same word as the 'divide' above)
    -Examples:
    --分享 fēnxiǎng - to share; 享 means 'enjoy'

    'Distinguish' (as an extension of 'divide'):
    -分 can be used as a free morpheme to mean 'distinguish'
    -Examples:
    --分辨 fēnbiàn - to tell, to distinguish
    --分別/分别 fēnbié (the two characters are different!) - difference; 別 means different

    There should be a lot more than this, but that's all I the words of which I can think right now.
     
  3. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    In Greek, some of these verbs do share a link with part:

    Part: In general, it's «μέρος» /'meros/ (neut.) or its diminutive «μερίδιο» /me'riðio/ (neut.) from the Classical verb «μείρομαι» 'meirŏmæ --> to divide, allot, PIE base *(s)mer-, to remember.
    Distribute (v.): «Μοιράζω» /mi'razo/ and «διαμοιράζω» /ðiami'razo/ from «μείρομαι» (see above) but also «κατανέμω» /kata'nemo/ and «διανέμω» /ðia'nemo/ (the latter, to apportion) from the Classical verb «νέμω» 'nĕmō --> to dispense, allot, distribute from PIE base *nem-, to allot, distribute (cf OCS нѣмъ, dumb, mute; Eng. numb; Lat. numerus).
    Divide out (v.): «Διανέμω» (see above).
    Share (v.): «Μοιράζω» /mi'razo/ and «διαμοιράζω» /ðiami'razo/ (see above), «Μοιράζομαι» /mi'razome/ & «συμμερίζομαι» /sime'rizome/ all from the Classical verb «μείρομαι» 'meirŏmæ. However,
    «Μοιράζομαι» /mi'razome/ (which is «μοιράζω» in mediopassive voice) is used mostly when referring to objects belonging to us and allow others to use too (i.e "I μοιράζομαι my appartment with my brother"), or when sharing our feelings.
    «Συμμερίζομαι» /sime'rizome/ is used when we identify with another's situation, feelings, motives, views, e.g. "I «συμμερίζομαι» his/her situation, feelings etc" (empathize?).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  4. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    much like in chinese, hebrew uses the root kh-l-k for all but communicate.
    Because of structures in hebrew each form is strict to one of the words. Each form acts just like in its english counter.
    Communicate in hebrew is the root k-sh-r ק-ש-ר
    or t-k-sh-r ת-ק-ש-ר
    when this one is used also for tying, bonding and alikes.
     
  5. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am somewhat surprised about the parallels, but the English do contain a reference to part-ing indeed.

    EXTRA=
    French: partir, English to depart.
    Dutch: afscheid, saying goodbye (off-separate)
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  6. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How would you translate communicate, Apmoy?
     
  7. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
     
  8. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
     
  9. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    These seem quite interesting. But isn’t there a contradition between sparse andcovered?
     
  10. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    It's «επικοινωνώ» /epicino'no/ which is an ancient compound verb «ἐπικοινωνέω/ἐπικοινωνῶ» ĕpĭkoinō'nĕō [uncontracted]/ĕpĭkoinō'nō [contracted] with initial meaning to have something in common with someone, and later to communicate; prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» ĕpĭ --> on, upon, above, in addition + verb «κοινωνέω/κοινωνῶ» koinō'nĕō [uncontracted]/koinō'nō [contracted] --> to share of common things, take part in
     
  11. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How interresting... In my wishful thinking I'd associate this common-ing as having the same parts, but now I am way out of line... ;-
     
  12. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How interresting... In my wishful thinking I'd associate this common-ing as having the same parts, but now I am way out of line... ;

    -compound adjective formed from *ko- "together" + *moi-n-, suffixed form of root *mei- "change, exchange
     
  13. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How interesting... In my wishful thinking I'd associate this common-ing as having the same parts, but now I am way out of line... ;

    Yet, communicate < common:
    Would that not be the same as of /koine/?
     
  14. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    It works in Czech (otherSlavic languages, too?). The basic root is díl (deel), evident the connection with Dutch-German deel-Teil, sdělit (meedelen), rozdělit (uitdelen), oddělit (verdelen/opdelen). Hungarian: the verb oszt/megoszt (Ugro-Finnic origin) means divide, distribute, share, communicate and the derivative noun osztag means squad, detail.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  15. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That is quite amazing to me, but maybe it is not that special??? Thanks.
     
  16. Ko-lo-bok- Junior Member

    Russian
    Hi, Thomas,
    It is more or less the same in Russian. 'Distribute', 'divide' and 'share' can all be translated by «делить» or «разделять», with the root "дел", that must sound very alike to the Dutch "del" (must be a cognate?); the meaning of the root is related to the notions of "portion", "part" etc, and the basic meanings of the two verbs are "to break something in parts or portions" (with some shades and variations that are not relevant here). As for 'communicate', this one may be translated with the verb 'делиться' ('ся' being a reciprocal suffix), when used in the meaning 'to share knowledge'.
    "There is only one thing worse than conclusions, made on the base of a single observation, namely those conclusions, that are made with the help of no observations at all". :) Sorry, I failed to find an authorized English translation of this sentence, or at least the name of its author. :( ("Хуже обобщений, сделанных на основе единственного наблюдения, бывают только обобщения, сделанные вовсе безо всяких наблюдений").
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  17. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks for these interesting notes. I just wonder: how about communicating (but see separate thread) and departing?

    As for the quote: not sure I understand. I just formulate one observation, but numerous others will show that some languages perceive or establish certain links, whereas others don't but perceive others.

    English deal:
    That might account for the Slavic word, I guess...
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  18. Ko-lo-bok- Junior Member

    Russian
    There's no connection between them in Russian. We translate the verb "depart" always with a verb, that means or closely implies moving or going (for example, "уходить" — "to go out").

    But there's a point, indeed: we communicate by 'establishing links' more often than by partitioning knowledge (using the verb "сообщать", the prefix "со" and the root "общ" both imply joining, unification).

    Also, I forgot to mention: the translation for "to share something with somebody" is often 'делиться чем-либо с кем-либо' too (both Instrumental case), just like for 'to share knowledge <= communicate'. But very often we use other verbs, unrelated, like "выложить" (lit. "to put out"; this one works in computer-related contexts).
    I feel so sorry! :( Please excuse me; I got emotional because of some extralinguistical issues, that are not related in any way with your position, no need to mention them :(

    PS: thank you for the link, Thomas! It's very interesting to learn the underhoods of the word "deal", I often wondered but never looked it up...
    By the way, the meaning of "делить" is exactly that: "to divide, distribute, separate, share". And Vasmer's dictionary confirms, that the Czech and the Russian words have the same origin as the Gothic dailjan.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  19. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Also -if I may add a cultural aspect- in Greek Fate is «Μοίρα» /'mira/ (fem.) a Classical noun «Μοῖρα» 'mœră, a deity for the ancients and a word which has a direct link with «μείρομαι» and «μοιράζω» («Μοῖρα» is the goddess who allots)
    Destiny is «Εἱμαρμένη» Heimăr'mēne (/imar'meni/ in modern pronunciation), again a deity for the ancients, a past perfect feminine participle of the verb «μείρομαι» («Εἱμαρμένη» is she who has fixed the fate of others)
     
  20. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Wow, that is quite interesting. But how do you explain the 'natural' link? Does the deity define the part (!) we have to play - as Shakespeare puts it somewhere: the world is a stage, and everyone plays his part or something the like?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  21. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    :thumbsup:
    Always a plesure to discuss such things with you TK
     
  22. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, I am certainly most grateful. But would you have any idea of the link between the two ?
     
  23. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    Something can be sparse, but evenly distributed over something, and that is sparsely covered, isn't it? :p In fact, I don't think I've mentioned a word with both (although there is such a word: 散佈 sànbù). Also, 散 is actually more about 'not concentrated' that 'sparse' since you mentioned it...

    Here are more words:

    Divide:
    -分開/分开/fēn kāi/to separate
    -分裂/fēnliè/to break up
    -分離/分离/fēnlí/to be treated as separate
    -分解/fēnjiě/(of a substance) to dissolve
    -解體/解体/jiětǐ/(of an organisation, etc.)to dissolve
    -分化/fēnhuà/to segragate
    -分居/fēnjū/(of a married couple) to separate

    Share:
    -分贓/分赃/fēnzāng/to divide and share stolen goods (or things that were immorally obtained in general)
    -瓜分/guāfēn/(of land) to divide
     
  24. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, my problem will be that I associate covering with fully covering. But indeed, we could also say; partially covered.

    Does the dissolving refer to the aspirin effect, a substance disappearing wholly in some fluid? We would not refer to parts here, that is special.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  25. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    In Tagalog; 1.) Communicate= makipag usap/makipagtalastasan 2.) Distribute= Ipamahagi/Ibahagi 3.) Divide= hatiin/ bahagiin 4.) Share part= pagbabahagi
     
  26. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I see some roots like makipag, hag (mahag/ bahag). Right ?
     
  27. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    ThomasQ, Here are the root words of The Tagalog words i gave. 1.) a. Usap= to talk/speak/converse b. Makipagtalastasan= Talastas (an old Tagalog word that mean you are communicating in three levels, each move, word and tone has distinct meaning and it is important to analyze/distinguish the real from fraud) 2.) Ipamahagi= Bahagi( part) and when in this form it become 'Partition'. 3.) Hatiin= hati (divide) the addition of "in" in some Tagalog words transform them into verb or action word. 4.) Pagbabahagi= has same root word as in # 2 , Bahagi(part/portion).
     
  28. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, this is interesting and clear. But then: does "hati" mean the same as "bahagi"? I am not sure I understand 'talastas': communication at three levels?
     
  29. aruniyan Senior Member

    Tamil
    Tamil:

    Communicate - Koorru, Kooru, Sol

    Distribute - Pakirnthali (divide+give)

    Divide - Paku

    Share - Pangu

    Part - Pakuthi

    part(v)/Separate - Piri
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  30. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    I think 分解 usually refers to decomposition (both breaking up compounds and secreting enzymes to break down nutrients in soil). That 'dissolve' was a mistake. :eek:
     
  31. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    You are forgiven ! ;-)
    Does the Pak refer to parts ? And how about 'pangu'? And 'piri' ?
     
  32. aruniyan Senior Member

    Tamil
    paku(verb) meaning to divide/share, PakuthUndu(Share and eat) is a famous term.
    Pakuthi(noun) means "a part/portion" ("thi" refers the object in that state)

    Piri(v) - To separate.

    I dont see a relation between piri and paku,

    Paku - i think its more of making into multiple...

    Piri(separate) - To reduce from being in multiple/more.
     
  33. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    The latter point seems intriguing: a distinction like between cutting into pieces and taking apart (reducing)???
     
  34. aruniyan Senior Member

    Tamil
    it seems, but not sure.


    ??
    Ive forgiven :), the threads here are always enlightening me.
     
  35. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    hati is divide/bahagi is part. Talastas is not common term. you will encounter this word in the Holy Scripture.It is the ability to read mind/analyze the behavior/ and the grammars of a person.
     
  36. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    Your Piri sounds pirasuhin in Tagalog.(into smaller pieces)/Pakuthi sounds pakuntiin (reduce in number).
     

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