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Comparison

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by binary_death, May 9, 2013.

  1. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Hello everybody!

    I'm trying to understand what happens with comparisons in different languages around the world.

    There are a few simple examples that I'd like you to translate into your mother tongue and, if possible, to explain a little about its structure.

    -You have more apples than him.
    -You have five more apples than him.
    -I want more apples.
    -You have as many apples as him.
    --------------
    -He talks more than you about himself.
    -He talks as much as you about himself.
    -------------

    Thank you in advance!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  2. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Czech:


    Ty máš více jablek než on (nom.). = You have more apples than he (= him)

    Ty
    máš o (prep.) pět jablek více než on. = You have five more apples than he.

    chci více jablek. = I want more apples.

    Ty
    máš stejně (stejné množství) jablek jako on. = You have as many (equal amount of) apples as he.

    On o sobě mluví více než ty. = He talks more than you about himself.

    On
    o sobě mluví tolik (tak často) jako ty. = He talks as much (as often) as you about himself.

    Ty jsi větší než on. = You are taller than he.

    Ty jsi (stejně) velký jako on. = You are (equally) tall as he.


    N.B. The sentence 1 and 3 have exactly the same structure like the corresponding English ones. The personal pronoun (subject of the sentence) can be omitted. Word order can change.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  3. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Hebrew:

    -You have more apples than him. יש לך יותר תפוחים ממנו\ה yesh lecha/lach (m/f) yoter tapukhim mimeno/mimena (m/f) you (have) got more apples than him/her.

    -You have five more apples than him. יש לך חמישה תפוחים יותר ממנו\ה ... khamisha tapukhim.... you have five apples more...
    -I want more apples. This one is tricky, if you want more apples as in to eat then itll be *) if its to have more apples then itll be **)
    *) אני רוצה עוד תפוחים ani rotze/rotza (m/f) od tapukhim.
    **) אני רוצה יותר תפוחים ani rotze/a yoter...
    -You have as many apples as him. יש לך אותה כמות של תפוחים כמוהו\כמוה yesh lecha/lach ota kamut shel tapukhim kamohu/kamoha (m/f). you have the same quantity of apples as he/she has
    --------------
    -He talks more than you about himself. הוא מדבר על עצמו יותר ממך hu medaber al atzmo yoter mimcha.
    -He talks as much as you about himself. הוא מדבר על עצמו כמוך hu... atzmo kamocha.
    -------------
     
  4. DearPrudence

    DearPrudence Dépêche Mod

    IdF
    French (lower Normandy)
    In French
    .......................................................... .........................................................................
    -You have more apples than him. Tu as plus de pommes que lui.
    -You have five more apples than him. Tu as cinq pommes de plus que lui.
    -I want more apples. Je veux plus de pommes.
    -You have as many apples ashim. Tu as autant de pommes quelui
    -He talks more than you about himself. Il parle plus de lui-même que toi.
    -He talks as much as you about himself. Il parle autant de lui-même que toi.
    But you forgot:
    -You are taller than him. Tu es plus grand que lui.
    - You are as tall as him. Tu es aussi grand que lui.


    And the way to pronounce "plus" is really a nightmare by the way! :eek:
    plus (prononciation)
     
  5. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    Since Russian has declensions, the structure of the sentences is a bit different:

    -You have more apples than him

    - у тебя больше яблок, чем у него
    lit. to you [there is] more of apples than to him (“there is” is omitted in these cases, but is understood)

    -You have five more apples, than him.
    -
    у тебя на пять яблок больше, чем у него
    lit. to you on five moreof apples, than to him

    -I want more apples.
    -
    я хочу больше яблок
    lit. I want more of apples

    -You have as many apples as him.
    -
    у тебя столько же яблок, сколько у него
    lit. to you same of apples, how much to him

    -He talks more than you about himself.
    -
    он говоpит о себе больше,чем ты
    lit. he talks of him more,than you

    -He talks as much as you about himself.

    - он говорит о себе столько же, сколько ты
    lit. he talks of him same, how much you
     
  6. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    I should translate the Russian pair столько - сколько by so/that many - how many.

    Such pairs are quite common in the European languages:

    quot - tot (Latin)
    kolik - tolik (Czech)
    сколько - столько skoľko - stoľko (Russian)

    In Czech we can also say:

    Ty máš (právě) tolik jablek, kolik jablek má on. = You have (just) so many apples, how many apples has he.

    This longer structure is commonly used in mathematics.
     
  7. germanbz Senior Member

    Benicàssim - Castelló - Spain
    Spanish-Spain/Catalan (Val)
    Spanish (Spain).

    -You have more apples than him. (Tu) Tienes más manzanas que él.
    -You have five more apples than him. (Tu) Tienes cinco manzanas más que él.
    -I want more apples. (Yo)Quiero más manzanas.
    -You have as many apples as him. (Tu) Tienes tantas manzanas como él.
    --------------
    -He talks more than you about himself. El habla más que tú sobre él mismo. / El habla sobre él mismo más que tú.
    -He talks as much as you about himself. El habla tanto como tú sobre él mismo. / El habla sobre él mismo tanto como tú.
     
  8. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    :thumbsup:


    EDIT: the same could be also translated as so/that much - how much for uncountable nouns (in Russian much and many are the same word)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  9. apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    In Greek:

    You have more apples than him.
    «Έχεις περισσότερα μήλα από αυτόν»
    ['eçis peri'sotera 'mila a'po a'fton]
    «Περισσότερα» [peri'sotera] (pl. nom. neut.) is the synthetic comparative of neut. adj. «περισσό» [peri'so] --> excessive.
    You have five more apples than him.
    Again here, we use the synthetic comparative «περισσότερα» [peri'sotera] (pl. nom. neut.).
    I want more apples.
    Idem.
    You have as many apples as him.
    «Έχεις τόσα μήλα όσα κι αυτός».
    ['eçis 'tosa 'mila 'osa ci a'ftos]
    lit. "you have
    as many apples as he (has)".
    The structure here is
    «τόσα» ['tosa] (neut. pl. demonstrative pronoun)...«όσα» ['osa] (neut. pl. relative pronoun)
    He talks more than you about himself.
    «Μιλά
    περισσότερο από σένα γιά τον εαυτό του».
    [mi'la
    peri'sotero a'po 'sena ʝa ton ea'fto tu]
    «Περισσότερο» here is a adverb. In English: "He talks
    excessively for himself than you".
    He talks as much as you about himself.
    «Μιλά
    όσο κι εσύ γιά τον εαυτό του».
    [mi'la
    'oso ci e'si ʝa ton ea'fto tu]
    «Όσο» ['oso] here is a relative adv.







     
  10. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Wow! What a wonderful guys here. Thank you so so much :eek:
    You all have given very detailed answers, which will help in my research for sure.

    But don't stop yet, the more examples, the better.
     
  11. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    In Turkish

    You have more apples than him. - Senin, ondan daha fazla elman var. (Your, from him more abundant your apple exists.)
    You have five more apples than him. - Senin, ondan beş tane daha fazla elman var. (Your, from him five [counter word] more abundant your apple exists.)
    I want more apples. - Daha fazla elma istiyorum. (More abundant apple I want.)
    You have as many apples as him. - Senin, onun kadar çok elman var. (Your, his until many your apple exists.)
    He talks more than you about himself. - O, kendisi hakkında senden daha fazla/çok konuşuyor. (He, himself about from you more abundant/many speaks)
    He talks as much as you about himself. - O, kendisi hakkında senin kadar fazla/çok konuşuyor. (He, himself about your until abundant/many speaks.)

    Threads like this make me feel like I talk Gibberish every day…
     
  12. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Just o_o. Turkish seems to work very differently.

    I suppose that "Senin" is in Genitive and "ondan" in "Ablative". That makes sense to me because it's something like Japanese, however I can't understand that "You" in Genitive...

    I would appreciate it if you could explain only the first phrase a little more :)
     
  13. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    That's because your example features the verb to have. Turkish doesn't have the concept of possessing. If you have an apple, you say: My apple exists.
    And while at that, I should also add that putting a possessive adjective (your in this case) doesn't cut it; the noun (apple in this case) needs to get a special suffix as well, which is -n for elma (apple).

    So, Senin elman = Your apple-your.
    You can omit the 'senin' now, it's not necessary unless you want to stress it in order to compare with someone else, as in the first sentence.

    Senin elman var = Your apple-your exists (= You have an apple)
    And then you add "more than him" in between, that's how that first sentence comes to life. :)
     
  14. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Mmm... I see, it's somewhat like an explicative clause that means "your apples, which are more than his, exist". Well, at least that's how I've understood it.

    I came across a very interesting paper in the internet about turkish and english comparisons: http://www.ilg.uni-stuttgart.de/sub13/hofstetter.pdf
    Perhaps it'll be useful for someone.

    Thank you Rallino :)
     
  15. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Unfortunately you have chosen the verb to have ("you have more apples than him"). Even some IE languages (Latin, Russian, ...) doesn't use the verb to have in such context (although they have it). It makes things more complex. Maybe another verb would be better. The sentence "You see more apples than he" has more similar structure in Russian than "You have more ...".

    BTW, there is a discussion "than he vs. than him" in the English Only forum. I was not sure what was correct.
     
  16. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Yes... I realised it when people started to post. For example, It's my understanding that in finnish to express posession you say "An apple is with me" xD
    But anyway, I find it funny to see how to say the same in many languages.
     
  17. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    I would like to add i too had difficulties with bringing an exact translation, and that another verb would be better.
     
  18. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Ok, how about changing it by "to see", how bibax said? I'm going to edit my post so that people use "to see" from now on.

    EDIT: Oh, I can't! Maybe Wordreference allows you only to edit recent posts...
     
  19. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    thatll solve the problem indeed.
     
  20. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    There is another problem with "you see" vs. "you are seeing". Many (probably most) languages do not distinguish it (Czech uses adverbs like just, now, just now, etc. for distinction). However we can neglect the difference.

    In Czech we can simply replace the verb "máš" (= you have) by "vidíš" (= you see/are seeing) as both verbs are transitive:

    Ty máš více jablek než on. = You have more apples than he.
    Ty vidíš více jablek než on. = You see more apples than he.

    The modified sentence will have the same structure in Russian:

    Ты видишь больше яблок, чем он. = You see more apples(,) than he.
    (ty vidiš boľše jablok, čem on)
     
  21. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Dutch (Nederlands):
    -You have more apples than him. - Jij hebt meer appels dan hij
    -You have five more apples than him. --- Je hebt vijf appels meer dan hij
    -I want more apples. Ik wil meer appels
    -You have as many apples as him. Je hebt evenveel appels als hij.
    --------------
    -He talks more than you about himself. Hij spreekt meer over zichzelf dan jij.
    -He talks as much as you about himself. Hij spreekt evenveel over zichzelf als jij.
     
  22. Tonky Senior Member

    Japanese
    Sounds like you already know Japanese, but I'll still add them anyways for reference.
    (BTW, "see" will have a bigger problem in Japanese, as you may have realized. "See" sounds like you are having some VA test with 見えます and just plain "見ます" would not make sense. Maybe "eat" if it does not cause issues on other languages? )

    -You have more apples than him.
    あなたは彼よりももっとりんごがあります
    As for you him than more apples exist.
    あなたは彼よりももっとりんごを持っています。(but it sounds more like "carrying in your arms" in this context.)
    You him than more apples have.​
    -You have five more apples than him.
    あなたは彼よりりんごが5つ多いです。
    As for you him than apples 5 more.
    あなたは
    彼よりりんごを5つ多く持っています
    You him than apples 5 more have. ​
    -I want more apples.
    私はもっとりんごが欲しいです。​
    As for me,more apples want(ed).​
    -You have as many apples as him.
    あなたは彼と同じくらいりんごがあります
    As for you, him with same about apples exist.
    あなたは彼と同じくらいりんごを持っています
    You him with same about apples have.​
    -He talks more than you about himself.
    彼はあなたよりももっと自分の事を話す
    He you than more self of thing talks.​
    -He talks as much as you about himself.
    彼はあなたと同じくらい自分の事を話す
    He you with same about self of thing talks.
     
  23. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Thank you Tonky =) I'm actually a Japanese student, that's why I could get a rough idea, but your examples are still very helpful because you're a native!

    By the way, could you explain me why do you use "くらい"? Would the phrase work without it?
    I know indeed that it means "about, approximately", but I can't see the approximation anywhere. It isn't the first time I see this word in Japanese with no meaning of "about"...
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  24. Tonky Senior Member

    Japanese
    同じくらい=about the same (amount/size)
    If you want, you could say ~と同じ数だけ(the same amount as~) but only for countables.
    What is this example with くらい with no meaning of approximation? maybe 暗い(dark)? 位(position)?
     
  25. Kartof Senior Member

    Bulgarian & English
    Bulgarian
    -You have more apples than him. - (Ти) имаш ябълки повече от него. (You) have apples more from him.
    -You have five more apples than him. - (Ти) имаш пет ябълки повече от него. (You) have five apples more from him.
    -I want more apples. (Аз) искам повече ябълки. (I) want more apples.
    -You have as many apples as him. - (Ти) имаш толкова ябълки колкото него. (You) have that amount apples as him.

    -He talks more than you about himself. - (Той) говори за себе си повече от теб(е). (He) talks for self his more from you.
    -He talks as much as you about himself. - (Той) говори за себе си колкото теб(е). (He) talks for self his as you.

    I'll also point out that the word "колкото" is literally "how much-the" though it means "as".
    All of the subject pronouns are optional. Тебe, the long informal direct object pronoun, can be spelled/pronounced with our without the final 'е'.
     
  26. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    I wonder if I could say something like: 彼もあなたも同じくらい自分の事を話す。

    Does it sound nice to you?
     
  27. Tonky Senior Member

    Japanese
    Yes, it sounds decent.
     
  28. binary_death Junior Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Thanks :) Turkish and Japanese are the most different languages from English and Spanish for now.

    Well, how many examples, how many languages to analyze! Each family is an entire world.
     
  29. sakvaka

    sakvaka Moderoitsija

    Finnish:

    With approximate, literal translations.

    Sinulla on enemmän omenoita kuin hänellä. = You have more apples than he (does).
    Sinulla on viisi omenaa enemmän kuin hänellä. = You have five apples more than he (does).
    Haluan lisää omenoita. = I want more apples.
    Sinulla on yhtä monta omenaa kuin hänellä. = You have as many apples as he (has).

    Hän puhuu itsestään enemmän kuin sinä. / Hän puhuu enemmän itsestään kuin sinä. = He speaks of himself more than you.
    Hän puhuu itsestään yhtä paljon kuin sinä. = He speaks of himself as much as you.

    "Much / a lot" is "paljon" in Finnish, and its comparative and superlative declension is:

    paljon, enemmän (lisää), eniten

    "Lisää" often replaces "enemmän", but it cannot be used in comparisons.

    Kerro toki lisää! = Kerro toki enemmän! Please, do tell more!
    Tarvitsemme lisää kovalevytilaa. = Tarvitsemme enemmän kovalevytilaa. = We need more hard disk space.

    But:
    Hevonen syö enemmän kuin koira. A horse eats more than a dog (does).(not *Hevonen syö lisää kuin koira)

    Yhtä...kuin = as ... as
    kuin = than / as
     
  30. mataripis Senior Member

    I use the Tagalog form. 1.) You have more apples than him. ( lamang ang bilang ng mansanas mo kaysa kanya.) 2.) You have 5 more apples than him.( Lamang ka ng limang mansanas kaysa kanya.) 3.) I want more apples. (Ibig ko nang marami pang mansanas.) 4.)You have as many apples as him.( Magsing dami ang taglay nyong mansanas.) 5.)He talks more than you about himself. (Marami siyang sinasabi tungkol sa iyo sa kanyang pagpapakilala/pagpapahayag.) 6.) He talks as much as you about himself. ( Sing dami ang nasasabi nya sa iyo at sa kanyang sarili sa kanyang pagpapahayag.)
     
  31. HYCHIN Junior Member

    Cantonese
    Cantonese:

    (The verb "have" causes some problems in the first two sentences.)
    1. You have more apples than him. 蘋果 多過 。"You apple more than him"
    The word 過 is a suffix. For example: Many 多 - More than 多過, Good 好 - Better than 好過.
    The Cantonese "多過 more than" is used as a verb. (In Chinese, many adjectives can be used like verbs. No linking verb is needed. These Chinese adjectives are called stative verbs.) It takes the standard of comparison as the object so it is a transitive verb.
    The sentence structure is [you | [apple | [more than | him]]]. On the first level, "you" is the subject and "apple more than him" is a subject-predicative structure. In Chinese, a Subj-Pred structure can be a sentence alone, or appear in a larger Subj-Pred structure as the predicative.

    2. You have five more apples than him. 五個蘋果。 "You more than him five apple"
    The verb is 多, without the suffix 過. The verb takes two objects. The first object is the standard of comparison, and the second is a quantified noun phrase, telling "by how many". The sentence structure is Subject+Verb+Object1+Object2.
    You can also include the suffix, but then the sentence will sound less natural.

    3. I want more apples. 多啲 蘋果。 "I want more apple"
    The word order and sentence structure in Cantonese and in English are identical.
    The word 啲 is a suffix. Using 啲 instead of 過 will reduce the number of objects by one: the standard of comparison is not needed.

    4. You have as many apples as him. 咁多 蘋果。 "You have him as many apple"
    Unlike the first two sentences, the verb "have" here is translated as the transitive verb 有.
    The sentence structure is [you | [have | [[him | as many] | apple]]].
    The noun phrase is quantified by 佢咁多. (To see this quantification, use other quantifiers to form 你有三個蘋果 "you have three apple".) 咁 is loosely equal to "as".

    5. He talks more than you about himself. 佢 講 佢自己 多過 。 "He talk himself more than you".
    In Chinese, the Subj-Pred structure can also be use as the subject of another larger Subj-Pred structure.
    The sentence structure is [[He | [talk | himself]] | [more than | you]].
    The suffix 過 is used and the object is the standard of comparison.

    6. He talks as much as you about himself. 佢 講 佢自己 好似 咁多。 "He talk himself is-like you as much".
    The verb is 好似 (is like). It is like a linking verb. 你咁多 quantifies the subject.
    The sentence put the idea in this way: "(The amount of) his talking about himself is like you as much."
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  32. Ёж! Senior Member

    Русский
    A little addition: it's more like 'at you' and 'at him'.
     
  33. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    Hungarian

    -You have more apples than him.--- Több almád van, mint neki.
    -You have five more apples than him. --- Öttel több almád van, mint neki.
    -I want more apples. --- Több almát kérek.
    -You have as many apples as him. --- Annyi almád van, mint neki.
    --------------
    -He talks more than you about himself. --- Többet beszél magáról, mint te.
    -He talks as much as you about himself. --- Annyit beszél magáról, mint te.
    -------------
     

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