Conocimientos y saberes

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by ximenad, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. ximenad

    ximenad Senior Member

    ON, Canada
    French
    Hello guys,

    I am translating a document SP > EN pertaining to environmental education... and I found this sentence:

    A nivel de los estudiantes, la educación ambiental posibilitará que interactúen con diversas disciplinas como ciencias naturales, sociales y matemáticas, e integren conocimientos y saberes, en un proceso transversal que cruza la enseñanza y el aprendizaje educativo.

    But in English, both "conocimiento" and "saber" are translated into "knowledge" only
    .
    In this context "saber" may refer to the traditional knowledge in a community, whereas "conocimiento" may refer to the knowledge acquired at school...

    Do you guys know of a specific word to make this difference? or shall I translate it as traditional knowledge and acquired knowledge? I am not really sure if it makes sense though..

    I would really appreciate your help, thanks in advance

    xoxo
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  2. xabiachica Senior Member

    Spain
    English English!
    I think integrate knowledge & learning would get the idea across.
     
  3. ximenad

    ximenad Senior Member

    ON, Canada
    French
    Thanks a lot Xabiachica, I think that it really gets the idea :)
     
  4. xabiachica Senior Member

    Spain
    English English!
    My children study 'conocimiento del medio' (actually 'coneixement del medi' in Valenciano!) at school - so I knew what you were talking about:)
     
  5. ximenad

    ximenad Senior Member

    ON, Canada
    French
    That is so interesting, I wish I had studied that subject at school in my time ;)
    Thanks
     
  6. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    Wouldn't it be "knowledge and notions"?
     
  7. ximenad

    ximenad Senior Member

    ON, Canada
    French
    Hi Chileno,
    how would Knowledge and notions learned at school sound? Because notions per se may be taken just as ideas... what do you think?
     
  8. xabiachica Senior Member

    Spain
    English English!
    No. it wouldn't sound right, or get the idea across at all.....

    .....and that's why:)
     
  9. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    Learn = aprender
    Learnings = apredizaje(s)

    Notion = idea, partial knowledge.
     
  10. cipotarebelde Senior Member

    El Salvador
    USA English
    Notion doesn't sound right at all there. How would knowledge and ideas work? Or is the Spanish just overkill? Is it a poorly constructed sentence in Spanish or is it a common idiom, "conocimientos y saberes"?
     
  11. k-in-sc

    k-in-sc Senior Member

    Definitely not "notion," which implies an incomplete or uninformed understanding of something.
    "Conocimientos y saberes" could be just "knowledge" or it could be "practical and theoretical knowledge," "knowledge and ideas," "knowledge and experience(s)," "knowledge and expertise," etc., depending on the context.
     
  12. ximenad

    ximenad Senior Member

    ON, Canada
    French
    Thank you a bunch k-in-sc, will keep it in mind if I see that expression again :)

    Un abrazo :)
     
  13. juandresmoreno

    juandresmoreno New Member

    Spanish-Colombia
    Would it be ok to translate "saberes" as "knowledge" as well?

    Example:
    SPA: "las abuelas y los taitas tejen, más que conocimientos, saberes existenciales"
    ENG: "grandmothers and taitas weave, more than just knowledge, existential knowledge"
     
  14. juandresmoreno

    juandresmoreno New Member

    Spanish-Colombia
    What about translating "saberes" as "wisdom" (sabiduría)?:

    SPA: "las abuelas y los taitas tejen, más que conocimientos, saberes existenciales"
    ENG: "grandmothers and taitas weave, instead of knowledge, existential wisdom"
     
  15. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    Again, I maintain that "knowledge and notions" is the correct way to translate "conocimientos y saberes".

    What's more, k-in-sc and others seem to agree that "notion" doesn't fit, because after all "notions are ideas" she states:

     
  16. horsewishr

    horsewishr Senior Member

    Michigan (USA)
    English (Generic Midwest Variety)
    I agree with k-in-sc.

    "Notion" has a generally negative or inferior connotation, compared to knowledge. It's often applied to mistaken ideas and misunderstandings. For example:

    He's got some crazy notion that he's a great tennis player, but he loses every match.
     
  17. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    You are completely right!

    I am not arguing that. Everybody seems to understand that notion is an idea, good or bad, depending on context.
     
  18. juandresmoreno

    juandresmoreno New Member

    Spanish-Colombia
    "Un saber" is not "a notion", Chileno.

    "Saber" is not a partial knowledge or idea on the way of becoming 'true' knowledge. "Saber" is used in Latin American social sciences as a way to dignify the knowledge that non-academic circles have (prehispanic native communities, the elders...). "Saber" is just another kind of knowledge other that the scientific knowledge. But it is knowledge too. It is a respectful term, but, as many have said here, "notion/idea/learning" are rather diminutive terms. Therefore thinking that "saber" is a partial knowledge actually goes against the respectful nature of the Spanish expression.

    I think there is in the English-speaking world not such a notion as "saber", that's why the best would be to create a word in English that fully expresses its meaning. By now, I suggest to translate "saber/saberes" as "wisdom" (sabiduría). It is not exactly the same but their meaning and ethimology are close at least.
     
  19. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    I know exactly what you are saying juandresmoreno....

    En fin.
     

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