Croatian: Pesma and pjesma

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by MPA, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. MPA Senior Member

    What is the difference between the words pesma and pjesma? I know that that two words mean "song".
  2. MPA Senior Member

    I can not edit my post, so, I wrote Croatian wrong. I am sorry for this.
  3. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Pesma is ekavian (Serbian/Eastern), while pjesma is ijekavian (Croatian/Bosnian/Western) variant of the same word. Pronunciation of old Slavic vowel jat systemically differs between Serbian and Croatian, as well as between other Slavic languages. Very roughly generalizing, for example, Czech, Russian and Croatian have je/ye (e with palatalization of preceding vowel), Serbian, Slovenian and Macedonian have e, and Bulgarian ya.
  4. DenisBiH

    DenisBiH Senior Member


    I know one has to simplify these things a bit for foreigners Duya, but I think this is an oversimplification. For the OP, ijekavian Serbian exists as well and is the standard variant used by Serbs in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia and Montenegro. And then there's also standard Montenegrin which is also ijekavian. Basically, in the BCSM area, standard Serbian of Serbia is ekavian, other standards are ijekavian.
  5. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    If you take my adjectives as geographic rather than ethnic (or sociolinguistic) denominations, then the simplification works much better, doesn't it?
  6. Vanja Senior Member

    And what dialect do Canadian Serbs speak? :D Or when you get to the North Pole? ;)
  7. aprendiendo argento

    aprendiendo argento Senior Member

    Premantura - Croatia
    Croatian (Chakavian)
    Pesma is also Kajkavian Croatian, but popevka is much more common and is likely to be used instead.
  8. MPA Senior Member

    Ok, all this -kavian words are new to me... But I understand this point of jat evolution.

    Thank you.
  9. Gnoj Senior Member

    ekavian: pesma, mleko, lepo, lepota, vreme (Serbia)
    ijekavian: pjesma, mlijeko, lijepo, ljepota, vrijeme (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and most of Croatia)
    ikavian: pisma, mliko, lipo, lipota, vrime (part of Croatia)

    kajkavian, chakavian, shtokavian and shtakavian (kajkavski, čakavski, štokavski i štakavski) are subgroups and they are named after their respective dialect forms for the word "what": kaj, ča, što and šta (što is standard in Croatian, šta is standard in the other BCS standards).

    The -ka part (ie kajkavski) is just a verb sufix - if one is speaking kajkavian, then they are kaj-ing (kajka), if they are speaking shtokavian, then they are što-ing (štoka). And the last part -vski is a common Slavic sufix for what -ic, -ian and -ish are in English (Germanic, Croatian, English).

    I hope I explained well, sorry for my weak linguistic terminology.
  10. Vanja Senior Member


  11. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Bullshit. :thumbsdown:

    Pardon my French.
  12. Vanja Senior Member

    Then complain to the author, monsieur. :D
  13. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    I can't stop people writing bullshit all over teh internets (that's its inherent property), but at least I can object when people proliferate it to the places I visit.
  14. Vanja Senior Member

    In my case, I don't bother to stop people using such edifying comments in bad French at the places I'm visiting.

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