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De taal van Vondel

Discussion in 'Nederlands (Dutch)' started by PiotrR, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. PiotrR Junior Member

    Chinese (Mandarin)
    Hello. Is there a reason why you don't say De taal van Van den Vondel, but just De taal van Vondel?
     
  2. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    Because we are lazy:D
     
  3. PiotrR Junior Member

    Chinese (Mandarin)
    :D Is it related to the archaic cases in Dutch though? You dropped them relatively recently.
     
  4. bibibiben

    bibibiben Senior Member

    Amsterdam
    Dutch - Netherlands
    It's not related. You're not just dropping a case, you're dropping a preposition with an article that's part of a proper name. Which is extremely exceptional. In fact, I don't know any other proper name that loses its affix 'van den' (or 'van de', 'van der', 'van het' etc.) when standing alone. The reason why this came about could be that the name lacked stability during Vondel's lifetime : "Het woord Vondel, ook vonder of vlondel, beteekent eigenlijk een brugje. De dichter zelf en zijn tijdgenooten schrijven nu eens Vondel, van Vondel, van den Vondel, dan weer van Vondelen, van der Vondelen Of ook wel Vondelens, van Vondelens." [http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21800/21800-h/21800-h.htm#Footnote_8_8]

    By the way, I noticed that the Dutch Wikipedia article on Vondel consistently writes 'Van den Vondel', which is an uncommon practice.
     
  5. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    Beethoven.
     
  6. bibibiben

    bibibiben Senior Member

    Amsterdam
    Dutch - Netherlands
    Beethoven may have had Flemish ancestors, he is a German. In German names, the particle is always dropped when the surname is cited alone. Particles in Dutch and Belgian names can’t be dropped, Vondel being a notable exception. This may be an interesting link: http://blogs.bournemouth.ac.uk/rese...h-flemish-german-names-in-the-harvard-system/. Or look up page 558 of Garner’s Modern American Usage (Google Books).
     
  7. PiotrR Junior Member

    Chinese (Mandarin)
    Ok, thanks.
     

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