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Despite x Although

Discussion in 'Português (Portuguese)' started by Lynna, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. Lynna New Member

    Portuguese - English
    Bom dia!
    Despite x Although
    Gostaria de saber quando usar um e outro de forma adequada. Podem me dar alguns exemplos para esclarecer a diferenca de quando usar um ou outro?

    Obrigada
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2010
  2. almufadado

    almufadado Senior Member

    Earth
    Português de Portugal
    "Despite my willingness (i am willing) to answer your question, you could have give it a try ! "

    "Apesar da minha disposição (eu estar disposto a) para responder à tua questão, podias ter feito uma tentativa"

    "Despite all the wrongs in the world, i still believe in people!

    Despite "the fact" , there is a "reason"/"follow up"/"continuity"

    "Although this can be a way to do it, i could be wrong"

    "Still i will do it, although you oppose it/despite your opposition!"

    Poetic:
    "Although we have never met, you have touched the very heart of my soul." - "Mesmo que nunca nos tenhamos conhecido, tocaste o amago do meu ser."

    "Despite all, i still love you." - "Eu ainda te amo, apesar de tudo" as in "against all odds"
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  3. Ricardoreis Senior Member

    London
    English (British)
    Careful, some of these sound very wrong in English. You have to be very careful with the syntax when using 'despite'.

    Despite my willingness to answer your question, I don't want to make it that easy for you!

    (you can't say "Despite I am willing")

    Note: Use 'Despite' + a noun / verb in the gerund

    - Despite my uncertainty about the security of my job, I went to work as normal.
    (Despite being uncertain about the security of my job, I went to work as normal)
    - Despite his grey hair, he's not that old.
    (or Despite having grey hair, he's much younger than he looks.)
    - Despite the rain, we're going outside to play football.
    - Despite my hunger, I'm not going for lunch yet.
    (Despite being hungry, I'm not going for lunch yet.)



    or 'Despite the fact that' + a verb in the present tense

    Despite the fact that he has grey hair, he's not that old.
    Despite the fact that I am hungry, I'm not going for lunch yet.
    Despite the fact that it's raining, we're going outside to play football
    Despite the fact that I am uncertain about my job, I'm going to work as normal


    There's no difference between the different versions, but each one requires you to be careful about how to use the noun/verb.


    "Despite all the wrongs in the world, I still believe in people!

    "Despite the fact, there is a reason" (You have to say 'Despite the fact THAT + fact), e.g. Despite the fact that it seems pointless, there is a reason.

    "Eu ainda te amo, apesar de tudo" = Despite everything, I still love you.


    The use of 'although' is correct. Mostly the difference is stylistic, and as long as you get the syntax right, you can use either. My first examples could be rephrased using 'although' with no difference in tone. Normally you can't use 'although' plus verb in the gerund, apart from the expression "Although having said that,..."

    Although he has grey hair, he's not that old.
    Although I am hungry, I'm not going for lunch yet.
    Although it's raining, we're going outside to play football
    Although I am uncertain about my job, I'm going to work as normal


    Final word: you can replace 'Although' with 'Even though' and use exactly the same structure.
     
  4. almufadado

    almufadado Senior Member

    Earth
    Português de Portugal
    I see all the time, for example: "Despite I never had a ..." , but it can be a mistake too.

    Despite my formal mistake in "Despite I am willing/my willingness" was an informal way to illustrate the Portuguese version, I will correct it.

    That said, and although I am willing to correct my phase all together, I will place it in parenthesis so it fit the Portugueses form of "Apesar de". Do you agree ?

    Although you do not agree with that construction, and despite all grammatical constraints, i take very seriously my poetic freedom. My "all" was of omnibus sense, so it could stand for "everything", "everyone", "against all odds", "the world", "all there is" and so on... ;) :)

    Despite your disagreement about that construction, and although i have to abide ( :( ) to all grammatical constraints, i take very seriously my poetic freedom. My "all" was of omnibus sense, so it could stand for "everything", "everyone", "against all odds", "the world", "all there is" and so on... ;) :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  5. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Despite: apesar de.
    Although: embora, ainda que, se bem que.
     
  6. Lynna New Member

    Portuguese - English
    Muito esclarecedor, muito obrigada a todos que postaram exemplos!!
     
  7. almufadado

    almufadado Senior Member

    Earth
    Português de Portugal
    De nada. Não tem de que.:)

    Agora dá tu um exemplo.;)
     
  8. Ricardoreis Senior Member

    London
    English (British)
    "Despite I never had" is wrong, indeed. The right expression would be "Despite never having had...", or "Despite the fact I never had"

    Hey, I'm a poet at heart so I know exactly what you mean! You *could* use 'all' in this context poetically, but it would be going against the normal use, in my opinion. Poets have the ability to do that :D

    But my English teachers always used to tell me at school - you have to know the rules in order to break them. They used that line to justify teaching us grammar, when some people pointed at poets and some authors and said "But they don't care about rules!". Now, looking back on it, I think they had a point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  9. almufadado

    almufadado Senior Member

    Earth
    Português de Portugal
    Despite the roughness of the sea !
    Although you disbelieve me !
    I will sail my boat and see,
    The fruits of the new tree.

    Despite never having had the chance !
    Although no one gave me the opportunity!
    I will thrive and will find my destiny,
    And in the end, we will drink and dance.
     
  10. 4TranslatingEnglish Senior Member

    Portugal, Lisbon
    Good old fashion Portuguese
    This is a lesson I had to learn the hard way. It originates from the fact that, in Portuguese, "apesar de", natural translation for "despite", can indeed be followed by a personal prenoun:
    "apesar de ele / apesar de isto"
    In English, one has to resort to "although".
     
  11. jaraki New Member

    Portuguese
    hi,

    in a sentence:

    ____________data link communication has reached an advanced stage of development, verbal communication is likely to remain the prime means of air-ground communication for many years.

    what is correct to use? Despite or Althouhg? and why?
     
  12. Ariel Knightly

    Ariel Knightly Senior Member

    Rio de Janeiro
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Acho que já disseram isso acima, mas vamos lá. Despite é uma preposição, então seu complemento é um sintagma nominal - um grupo de palavras com um substantivo como núcleo. Although é uma conjunção, então inicia uma oração - construção com sujeito e predicado.

    data link communication - sujeito
    has reached - verbo
    an advanced stage of development - complemento

    sujeito + verbo + complemento = oração

    Embora esse sujeito seja um sintagma nominal, o fato de ele funcionar como sujeito de uma oração impossibilita o uso de despite, entende?

    Macetinho:

    .Despite SOMETHING, ...
    .Although something does something, ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  13. jaraki New Member

    Portuguese
    vlw pela resposta Ariel..

    o macetinho foi 10 tb!
     
  14. Ariel Knightly

    Ariel Knightly Senior Member

    Rio de Janeiro
    Brazilian Portuguese
    De nada. Eu fico feliz em ajudar. :)

    Eu estava aqui pensando sobre o assunto e cheguei à conclusão que vale a pena acrescentar os seguintes exemplos:

    (1) He is good company, in spite of / despite the fact that he talks all the time.
    (2) He is good company, although / even though he talks all the time.

    Como você pode ver, he talks all the time é claramente uma oração, por isso usa-se although em (2). Já the fact that he talks all the time é um sintagma nominal com uma oração dentro dele, o que pode confundir um pouco. Perceba, entretanto, que the fact não é sujeito de coisa alguma. Isso deve ajudar a entender:

    "He is good company, despite this fact."
    "What?"
    "The fact that he talks all the time."
     
  15. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Nesse casos eu não usaria despite nem although, mas in spite of.
     
  16. Ariel Knightly

    Ariel Knightly Senior Member

    Rio de Janeiro
    Brazilian Portuguese
    I think despite can be used in the same way as in spite of. The former is just more formal than the latter.

    The expression apesar de can be translated as both although and despite, that's why some Brazilian students have a hard time learning these words.

    Apesar de a bíblia não condenar a poligamia, ... [Although]
    Apesar do fato do Brasil ser o país do futebol, ... [Despite]
     
  17. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Pensando bem, concordo com você.

    Ao mesmo tempo, "despite I never had..." soa-me extraordinariamente mal, mas tenho de admitir que "apesar de que nunca tive..." é ao menos possível em português. Portanto a tradução que propus antes não dá para todos os casos.
     
  18. 4TranslatingEnglish Senior Member

    Portugal, Lisbon
    Good old fashion Portuguese
    Não soa mal: é um erro enorme. (A tareia que levei no fórum de inglês por causa disso!) O "despite" nunca é seguido por um pronome pessoal. Tem de ser "despite the fact that I..." Ou um pronome possessivo: "despite my lacking of...".
    O português é muito mais permissivo com o "apesar de". Logo, podemos dizer "apesar de o Brasil ser..." sem usar a palavra "facto". Em inglês, não podemos evitar o "facto". Só contornando a frase.
    In spite of vai dar ao mesmo. Também não se pode usar um pronome pessoal, só possessivo: in spite of his..., in spite of the fact that...
    Confesso que pessoalmente tanto detesto o despite como o in spite of.
    Enough said. :D
     

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