die transnationale Kooperation mit Gewerkschaften aus anderen EU-Mitgliedstaaten bzw. auf europäischer Ebene (function bzw.)

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by falafalie, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. falafalie Junior Member

    English
    Hi all,

    Does anyone know a good trick to translate 'bzw.' without your sentence seeming overly 'doppelt gemoppelt?'

    For example: 'Im Zuge dessen haben sie ihre Organisationsstrukturen den veränderten Rahmenbedingungen sukzessive angepasst und die transnationale Kooperation mit Gewerkschaften aus anderen EU-Mitgliedstaaten bzw. auf europäischer Ebene verstärkt.'

    Translating this as '...reinforcing cross-border cooperation with trade unions from other EU member states – that is, at European level – ...' seems somewhat redundant ....

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2014
  2. exgerman Senior Member

    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    Sometimes it means or, rather ..., but in your example it just means or.
     
  3. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    I think "or" is just a part of the meaning. It omits a kind of "where it fits".
    Usually it is translated as "respectively" in such cases.

    ... and they reinforced the cooperation with trade unions from other EU member states or at European level, respectively.

    So neither in German nor in English it is "doppelt gemoppelt", it refers to different levels.
    I do not know exactly if you have to use "or" or "and" here.
    It means to one of both or to both trade unions from other EU member states or at European level.

    It means, as exgerman stated "or" in the given case, I want to add it is the "including or" (one or the other or both, according to the context.)
     
  4. exgerman Senior Member

    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    That's true. It really means on the one hand, co-operating with unions in other EU countries where that is appropriate, and on the other hand, co-operating at the pan-European level where that is appropriate.

    German happens to have a word for this meaning, and uses it relentlessly. In other languages where such a word is not available, the idea is usually left up to the reader to figure out. That's why I suggested or.

    Respectively is one of those translator words that's not really understood by the native readers of the target language. Here are just a few native English speakers ranting about Germans' use of respectively in English. You can easily find more by googling beziehungsweise respectively.

    1
    2
    3 a post by a British translator who has lived in Germany for 40 years, is worth reading in its entirety, including the comments
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  5. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Thank you very much, exgerman.
     
  6. falafalie Junior Member

    English
    interesting, thanks for this!
     
  7. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    I have always used 'i.e.'
     
  8. Dan2

    Dan2 Senior Member

    US
    US English
    I have too... but not as a translation of "bzw". :)
    Seriously, there may be contexts in which "i.e." fits, but I'd say that "i.e." is an incorrect translation for most occurrences of "bzw".
     
  9. exgerman Senior Member

    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    When bzw is used to do a correction on the fly, i.e. is not bad. But in its normal use, to mean either A or B or both, depending on the circumstances of each individual case, then i.e. doesn't work.
     

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