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Dile a tu amo que en César sólo manda César

Discussion in 'Lingua Latina (Latin)' started by Epilio, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. Epilio

    Epilio Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    Se supone que eso fue lo que le contestó César a un mensajero de Sila. Éste pretendía que César se divorciara de Cornelia, ya que era hija de un adversario político, a lo que César se negó. La frase se tiene por apócrifa, porque no hay fuentes que la confirmen. En cualquier caso me interesa tener una versión en latín. Unos intentos míos son los siguientes:

    Dic Dominum tuum quem
    • Caesar tantum/dumtaxat obedit Caesarem.
    • in Caesare tantum/dumtaxat iubet Caesar.
    • supra Caesarem tantum/dumtaxat iubet Caesar.

    No me suena bien ninguna :eek:. A ver si alguien me puede echar una mano.

    Un cordial saludo.
     
  2. Hamlet2508 Senior Member

    English
    Would love to help but my Spanish is rather poor.
    But you would need Dominus to be a Dative for dic as in dic domino
     
  3. Epilio

    Epilio Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    Say to your master that Caesar only receives orders from Caesar (well, literally in Caesar only commands Caesar).

    That's the sentence that Caesar supposedly said to a messenger sent by Sulla. He wanted Caesar to divorce his spouse Cornelia but he refused.
     
  4. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    The story is presumably in one of the Roman historians. Better to look it up in the source rather than translating it back from Spanish.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  5. Hamlet2508 Senior Member

    English
    I couldn't find your quote anywhere except on Spanish Wikipedia , where the sentence is quoted without any sources. Had a brief look into Suetonius' "The Twelve Caesars" where I couldn't find any trace of this . Could you give some more context if at all possible.
     
  6. Hamlet2508 Senior Member

    English
    If the original phrase can't be found I'd suggest

    Dic domino tuo Caesarem solum Caesari imperare.
     
  7. Epilio

    Epilio Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    Thank you very much :)

    I had checked some Roman historians but I didn't obtain any satisfying result. The only sources I found are Spanish websites, but it seems that they quote each other without adding information. Anyway it's an appealing sentence even though it be a hoax.
     
  8. Hamlet2508 Senior Member

    English
    You are welcome. I never knew that Caesar supposedly said that.:)
     
  9. wandle

    wandle Senior Member

    London
    English - British
    Another way: domino refer Caesarem nulli nisi Caesari parere (Report to your master that Caesar obeys none but Caesar).

    It sounds apocryphal to me. There is no mention of any such remark in either Suetonius or Plutarch.
    Caesar was then eighteen and Sulla was dictator and in the process of putting his political enemies to death.
    As the nephew of Marius, Caesar was targeted and forced to flee for his life, not returning to Rome till Sulla was dead.
    When Sulla's relatives and friends were advising him not to kill the young man, Sulla is reported to have said, 'In Caesar there are many Mariuses'. This saying by Sulla is vouched for by Suetonius and Plutarch, but the alleged remark of Caesar is not reported. If it appears in any later writers it seems likely to be an invention.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  10. exgerman Senior Member

    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    This spanish site says flat out that it is a fabrication not found in any ancient text. On the other hand, it seems to be a well-known quotation in the Spanish language world. That suggests to me that it originated in some sort of Spanish political polemic of the past.

    It takes the heroic-enough known facts, when Caesar dared to defy the Dictator Sulla by refusing to divorce his wife, and turns them into an object lesson for future generalissimos everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  11. wandle

    wandle Senior Member

    London
    English - British
    As I read it, it says that the saying appears to be a fabrication, as it has not been possible to verify it in ancient texts, even though the circumstances in which it is supposed to have been said are historical.

    En cambio, “Sólo César manda en César” parece una falsificación, puesto que no ha sido posible atestiguarla en los textos antiguos, a pesar de que las circunstancias históricas con que se ha relacionado la frase son ciertas.
     
  12. exgerman Senior Member

    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    I think you'll find that it means "on the face of it, it's a fabrication", a soft and cuddly phrasing intended to soften the blow for those who've always believed it to be a real quotation.
     
  13. wandle

    wandle Senior Member

    London
    English - British
    It seems to me to be a proper scholarly qualification, allowing for the (admittedly unlikely) possibility that a hitherto unknown ancient work might be discovered, containing such a quotation.
     
  14. Epilio

    Epilio Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    Thank you all very much :)
     

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