dogmatyczny

Discussion in 'Polski (Polish)' started by radosna, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. radosna Senior Member

    Poland
    English- USA
    Hi everybody!

    I keep meeting guys in Poland that I would best describe as dogmatic in English. I'm talking about men who are so convinced that their way is the only way of viewing things, so much that it leaves no room for discussion. Any other perspective is considered to be almost heretical. Often this is related to religious views.

    New Oxford American Dictionary's definition is excellent:
    dogmatic |dɒgˈmatɪk|adjectiveinclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true : he gives his opinion without trying to be dogmatic.
    I found in my Polish/English dictionary that the word dogmatyczny does in fact exist in Polish. But I wanted to know if the average Pole would understand this word or if it is such a rarely-used word that I would be better off replacing it with a synonym.

    Thanks for your help!

    P.S. Please know that I'm not stereotyping Polish men this way. I'm describing a very specific type of men I keep running into in my current circumstances. In general, my experiences with Polish men have been very positive. :)
     
  2. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I'd understand it in an instant, Radosna, but the less, sorry, educated among us (or not having a wide range of vocabulary) could have trouble seeing what you mean. Another way of saying the same thing is using words such as 'bezkompromisowy' or 'apodyktyczny', but the latter might be even more obscure for some than 'dogmatyczny'.

    "Przekonany o swojej nieomylności" is a long-winded way of saying it. It translates into English as "convinced that he's always right".
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  3. BezierCurve Senior Member

    "Dogmatyczny" is a big word for a small thing like that... You might go for the old good "zaściankowy", provided you're not within a stone's throw.

    EDIT: ... which translated back would mean sort of "narrow-minded".
     
  4. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I agree with Dreamlike, whatever he suggested. Konserwatywny w poglądach might be another option. Dogmatyczny might not be understood. Zaściankowy would not be the right word -- it means something else, and was really invented by people who did not know what zaścianek was (my guess is or got offended by some owners) -- in my opinion. (a smaller landowners property in the Lithuanian part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). Most of those people were highly educated nobleman, and I don't really know who invented this offensive term. (they could have been slightly less sophisticated than Mickiewicz or Pushkin -- the elite in the literary world of the 19th century, but still quite well educated).
     
  5. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I agree. 'Zaściakowy' carries a different meaning than the one Radosna's looking for. I think it best translates into English as "backward", "extremely conservative". Of course, a person can very well be 'dogmatic' and 'zaściankowa' at the same time, but it might be the case that a person has liberal views and isn't very open to discussion. The same goes for 'narrow-minded'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  6. BezierCurve Senior Member

    There are many more words which meaning shifted over time, zaściankowy being one of them. I am aware this is not what "dogmatic" means, but be realistic - how many of the guys Radosna is writing about even know exactly what their own religious dogma is? It's that kind of narrow-mindedness which will not allow for any discussion that comes to my mind instantly.
     
  7. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    If the men Radosna speaks of are dogmatic when it comes to their religious views, then I could consider using the word "zaściankowy" (although most likely would decide not to use it, since I find it offensive). I don't know whether that's the case, or Radosna just gave that example to illustrate her point.

    What if they are ardent liberals, so convinved that their outlook on life is the only right one. I wouldn't call them "zaściankowi" then.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  8. radosna Senior Member

    Poland
    English- USA
    All your input is very interesting to me.

    When I speak of one being dogmatic, I am talking about something beyond narrow-mindedness. It's possible to be narrow-minded but non-aggressive about it. There is an aspect of narrow-mindedness to being dogmatic but there is also an additional element of asserting one's views on others. Plus, whether or not they are an authority figure on the subject, they tend to behave that way.

    Dreamlike, I like the suggestion of "bezkompromisowy" as a possible substitute. It captures the stubborness of a dogmatic person. Maybe it doesn't capture everything but it does capture a big part.
     
  9. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    We might be able to offer a better word, but we have to know what they are specifically dogmatic about. If that's just their demeanour in general, then I suggest that you use "bezkompromisowy". :)

    Also, please note that one can be "bezkompromisowy" in a good sense. It's sometimes good to display this quality, when the situation calls for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  10. radosna Senior Member

    Poland
    English- USA
    Interestingly enough, I had a chance to try out the word "dogmatyczny" two days ago (on the 8th)! I was having a casual discussion with some people -- including a pastor -- and of the three, only the pastor knew what it meant. The others asked what it meant & when I tried to plug in "bezkompromisowy" and "apodyktyczny", the pastor said, "no, they're not really the same thing as dogmatyczny".

    But then again, none of you ever said it was the same thing either. Regretfully, I couldn't remember on the spot the other words & phrases suggested. Shame on me!!! :(

    The discussion had nothing to do with the people I had in mind when I asked about this word. There is indeed an element linked with religious views connected with my OP. With that said, I know people with varied views, conservative & liberal who can be described as dogmatic.
     
  11. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    That's what I was talking about, Radosna, the vast majority of Poles are rather unlikely to be familiar with the word 'dogmatyczny'. The pastor was correct in saying they are not the same thing, but the nuances of meanings of those are so small that I don't think I would take on the formidable task of explaning them to you!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  12. radosna Senior Member

    Poland
    English- USA
    I think I grasp something about the nuances between the meanings. I makes sense to me. Thanks, dreamlike!

    -- radosna

    P.S. Are you really only 19??? You sure are extremely intelligent!!! :)
     

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