Discussion in 'Lingua Latina (Latin)' started by GeorgiaL, Sep 30, 2005.
Does anyone know what the English translation is for the Latin phrase above?
Welcome to the forum!
As you have posted your question to the Multilingual Glossaries forum, which has nothing to do with Latin, I am moving it to the Other Languages forum, where you have better chances to get some replies.
Thanks for that! Put it down to Newbie ignorance!
I have found the following translation here (Walker family) and here:
While I breathe I hope.
That was quick! Thank you very much indeed for your help.
hi! that translation was not exact, it means: as long as i breath i'm hoping
I second that, because "while I breathe I hope" doesn't make much sense, although "dum" can mean both "while" and "as long as". Just depends on context.
I've always found "As I breath I hope" to be more poetic.
I'm no expert in latin, so I can't argue translations, but I don't see how 'while' can be seen as not making sense. 'While' basically means 'as long as'. "while: n. 1) during or throughout the time that; as. 2) a) at the same time that..."
in my OPINION, replacing 'while' with 'as long as', is just reducing the quotation to simpler terms.
Everywhere I have ever seen 'dum spiro spero' it has been translated as 'while I breathe I hope'.
I like the Haitian Creole paraphrase of this: OU GENYEN LAVI GENYEN LESPWA by which they means IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL THE FAT LADY SINGS; or literally WHERE THERE IS LIFE THERE IS HOPE. I have always found it concise and encouraging.
IMO the difference is slightly: while means that you are doing something in concomitance to something else, "I eat my sandwich while I was watching Television, ", I can eat some sandwiches also after I have stoped to watch television.
"I live as long as I breath", means I can't live after stoping breating....
Excuse me for my bad english, I hope I manage to express my thought.
Dum spiro spero.
The perfect, most simple translation, is (as stated above):
"While I breath, I hope."
It cannot be anything else and remain literal (literal is not always good, but here it is clear).
For all clarity, however, here is a longer translation:
"While I yet have breath in my lungs, I will continue to have hope."
As far as I am concerned, the most accurate and meaningful translation of DUM SPIRO, SPERO is: As long as I live (breath), I hope. I think that with simple saying "While I breath, I hope", the actual meaning of the proverb is lost in translation. Does anyone know who actually said "DUM SPIRO, SPERO?" I am trying to find out because I want to quote it in a piece of written work, but I had no luck so far... I know it is not anonymous, if I remember rightly, it was a roman philosopher, but cannot remember who. Anyone could help me please?
It was written by Cicero.
I've got it! Better late, than never I suppose, but my Dad just researched it for me (obviously the old fashioned book of quotes is still the best...) and put me out of my misery. The quote "DUM SPIRO, SPERO" is from OVIDIUS.
This made my day (aren't I easy to please?)
Have a nice day everyone, and thank you!
proverbs have no authors !
That's right. Sorry, my mistake. Dum Spiro, Spero is a QUOTE. Obviously. But that was not the question anyway.
in French : Tant qu'il y a de la vie, il y a de l'espoir.
Mais cela ne vaut pas la formule d'Ovide (ou de Cicéron ) !
Mais si, Anne, assez souvent ! Just have a look at #11 & 12 in
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=57860, for example...
It's not a literal translation, but it certainly is the best one.
I liked this translation most, but I think it is just a matter of personal preference.
However, there seems to be some confusion about who said it, I thought it was Publius Ovidius Naso, but I'm not so sure anymore, it was a long time ago when I learnt these things... It bugs me now, so anyone knows for sure? Any Web references? I checked a few sites, but it either came back that it is a prowerb, or inconclusive. Any ideas on the origin?
Although not a particularly accurate translation, "There is hope whilst I yet breathe" seems to sum up the concept.
Whoever forged this saying, played with words and sounds. He used the paranomasia: "Dum spiro spero". It worked in Latin, but it may not work in a translation, so, maybe the literal translation is not the best one.
The author of it used also a methonymy, he took one characteristic of living creatures (breathing) to name the whole thing (life).
So, actually, the simplest translation of it is "While there is life, there is hope", as Dinis has said.
This sentence if found in the works of Cicero and in the works of Ovidius, but the first one is the more ancient, so Cicero used it for the first time (letters to Atticum).
The translation is "While I breathe, I hope." And all latin should be lower case..."dum spiro, spero." Hope this helps you.
Ultimamente, he estado buscando información sobre algunos proverbios latinos, porque la verdad, me parecen bastante interesantes. Y hace poco encontré 'Dum Spiro, Spero', 'Mientras respire, tendré esperanza' y como soy
muy cuiriosa, he estado buscando informacion sobre esta frase, sobre el escritor (Ciceron), sobre el libro o contexto en el que aparece, y el por qué de esta frase, pero no sé por qué, pero no he encontrado nada, o casi nada,
realmente interesante sobre la 'historia' de esta frase.. Y me tiene un poco intrigada xD. Y este es el mejor foro sobre idiomas que he encontrado, así que alguien podría darme información sobre esta frase? Gracias
Now.. for the english people
First, sorry for my english, it isn't very good, but I can explain.. I hope..
Lately I have been searching information about some latin proverbs.. And I found 'Dum Spiro, Spero', 'While I breathe, I hope'
I am very curious, and I think I really like this proverb and obviously I've been searching information about this phrase, about the writer, the context, and why this phrase was written.
Unfortunately I couldn't find nothing interesting about the 'history' of that phrase, and I am very intrigued.. So.. This is the best forum about lenguages I could find.. Does anyone can tell me some things about this proverb?
<< Moderator's note: This thread has been merged with an earlier thread. >>
It's the motto of the state of South Carolina, as well as making a few other appearances in media. It is generally taken to mean "While I hope, I breathe" and its first recorded user is Cicero, though its origin is a matter of some debate. Hope this helped.
Cic. ad Att. 9.10.3 has "dum anima est, spes esse dicitur" - literally, "it is said that, while there is breath, there is hope". There is also something similar in a fragment of the Elder Cato, and Seneca, Ep. 70.6 quotes an orator as saying "omnia homini, dum vivit, speranda sunt".
With all respect to facemonsterz (#2), "dum spiro, spero" means "While I breathe, I hope", so it's tantamount to the English idiom, "While there's life, there's hope".
sorry, I just got the two mixed up in my head. Ill make sure to proofread in the future
My last question, I think.. xD
What does ''omnia homini, dum vivit, speranda sunt'' means in English?
"While [or "so long as"] he lives, there is every hope for a human being".
While I breathe I hope
Sorry to pour cold water on all the "information" on the internet, but what Cicero actually said (ad Atticum 9,10,3) is: ut aegroto, dum anima est, spes esse dicitur, sic ego, quoad Pompeius in Italia fuit, sperare non destiti. “As in the case of a sick man one says, ‘While there is breath there is hope,’ so, as long as Pompey was in Italy, I did not cease to hope.”
In direct speech this would be “dum anima est, spes est” not “dum spiro spero”. And Cicero is clearly citing it as a pre-existing adage, not as something new.
Then could u explain why the Scottish clan maclennan use it as their motto
It has been around for a long time, but it is not in Cicero, and apparently not in Ovid either.
dum = until
Until I breath (I live), there is hope. (don't give up).
Dum can mean "until", but not here. Your translation makes no sense. The other translations proposed above are far better.
Separate names with a comma.