Dwoje Dzieci or Dwójka dzieci?

Discussion in 'Polski (Polish)' started by stelingo, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. stelingo

    stelingo Senior Member

    United Kingdom
    English
    Dwoje Dzieci or Dwójka dzieci

    Are these 2 expressions interchangeable or is there a difference in meaning. And is dwójka declined like a regular feminine noun?

    Thanks
     
  2. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I would say: dwoje dzieci, but many people say dwójka dzieci. I think the second one is more coloquial, or a regional variation.
    Please wait for other opinions as well. I don't believe they are totally interchangeable.
     
  3. Roger1 New Member

    Russian
    Forma zależy to od sytuacji w której się stosuje to określenie. Wydaje mi się, że „dwójka dzieci” jest bardziej potoczną formą (IMHO).
     
  4. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I can't think of any difference between these two other than the register. As it has been rightly suggested, "dwójka" is less formal. Note how using those have a bearing on the sentence:

    W klasie była tylko dwójka dzieci.
    W klasie było tylko dwoje dzieci.
     
  5. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    There may be a difference depending on how you use them.
    For instance: Uczestnicy zabawy byli podzieleni na grupy. Były cztery dwójki dzieci z dwoma opiekunami i dwie trójki z jednym. [The participants of the play were divided into groups. There were four twos of children with two carers and two threes with one [carer].]
    Here 'dwoje dzieci' doesn't work.
     
  6. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    In most contexts, though, that is when the number refers to the actual number of children, not groups of them, I've been taught that "dwójka" (and "trójka", "czwórka", etc.) is not even less formal but incorrect. Whether or not that's the case, it is quite popular among people. I myself, however, try to never use it.

    EDIT: http://poradnia.pwn.pl/lista.php?id=12746
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  7. marco_2 Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I think that more Poles would say e.g. Po śmierci męża została sama z dwójką dzieci than z dwojgiem dzieci - it sounds more natural and is easier to pronounce.
     
  8. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    I'm inclined to agree with you, but only with the first part. To me "dwojgiem" sounds more natural.
     
  9. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I can see where they're coming from, those who think that 'dwójka', as used in this thread, is incorrect, but I wouldn't go so far as that...I think it's perfectly permissible in colloquial speech, but saying that in more formal settings would strike me as sloppy use of language.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  10. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    I don't think threre's anything inherently wrong with 'dwójka', 'trójka', etc. and would be interested to see some elaboration on that point.
    Compare:
    The only restriction that I'd make here, and this is a very much personal matter, is that I find 'dwójka', 'trójka', 'czwórka', and 'piątka' to be OK in the everyday language, I vacilate about 'szóstka' and wouldn't be inclined to use the rest of them (that is, from 'siódemka' on) very often, maybe with the exception for 'setka'. It might be different in written language, though.

    As to the sentence given by Marco, I'd also tend to use "z dwójką dzieci", but I wouldn't bat an eyelid at the other option.

    EDIT: I don't find 'dwójka' colloquial either.
     
  11. BezierCurve Senior Member

    I see it as Thomas does, except I wouldn't stop at six. Why should we? After all "nasza jedenastka" scores over 5.000 results in Google.

    I also don't see any big difference between "dwójka" and "dwoje", except "dwójka" seems a bit "depersonalizing", as it can be used to almost any type of objects.
     
  12. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Bezier, since you mention it, 'jedenastka' is OK to me too when it means 'the national football team'. I gues it's because it is used frequently in media.

    However, as I said it's personal, and I think it depends much on what I am used to. For example:
    z dwójką dzieci rather than z dwojgiem dzieci
    z trójką dzieci rather than z trojgiem dzieci
    z czwórką dzieci rather than z czworgiem dzieci
    z piątką dzieci rather than z pięciorgiem dzieci
    z szóstką dzieci rather than z sześciorgiem dzieci
    but
    z siedmiorgiem dzieci rather than z siódemką dzieci
    z ośmiorgiem dzieci rather than z ósemką dzieci
    z dziewięciorgiem dzieci rather than z dziewiątką dzieci
    z dziesięciorgiem dzieci rather than z dziesiątką dzieci
     
  13. R.O

    R.O Senior Member

    Polish
    "Nasza jedenastka" to me means the national football team.
    As for the poem, I don't see how czworgiem could work there. Czworka is much better.
    Mind you, however, that it doesn't refer to the actual number of people but to groups of them.
     
  14. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    I see what you mean R.O.
    Nevertheless, the question:
    why 'dwójka', 'trójka', etc. "when the number refers to the actual number of children, not groups of them [...] is not even less formal but incorrect"?
    still remains open.
     

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