E vs ed

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Artrella, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng
    Ciao! Quando scrivo la parola "e" e li sigue una vocale io metto la "d" >>> "ed"
    ma alcune persone mi hanno detto che si può scrivere entrambe "e" ed "ed". Anche mi hanno detto che "ed" è un po vecchio.
    Che ne pensi?
    Grazie!
     
  2. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    ... che si possono scrivere entrambe.
    ... che si può scrivere sia "e" che "ed".
    Spero di non averlo sbagliato - non ho mai visto una spiegazione simile. Non mi è piaciuto come l'hai scritto tu e mi sembra che questo sia più italiano. :)

    Anch'io sempre metto "d" con una vocale.

    Jana
     
  3. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Buone le correzioni di Jana, non è necessario usare il congiuntivo dopo "mi hanno detto" ed è giusto vecchio e non invecchiato (old, not aged).

    Credo ci sia già almeno un thread in proposito, comunque la regola è che in presenza di due vocali identiche è preferibile usare la congiunzione eufonica. Negli altri casi è un po' datata. Comunque l'uso della congiunzione eufonica è abbastanza elegante.
     
  4. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng

    Grazie Jana!!! Sempre dandomi una mano!! :)

    Silvia, la congiunzione eufonica si rifere a "ed" "od"?
     
  5. Elisa68 Senior Member

    Italy Language:Italian

    Si, la congiunzione eufonica e' il termine tecnico per indicare ed o od (eufonico=bel suono; contrario: cacofonico=brutto suono).

    In sostanza, non e' un errore non usare la d prima di una vocale:

    Maria e Anna sono uscite.

    Preferisci bere vino o acqua? (vino, grazie:p )


    ma si dovrebbe sempre usare prima della stessa vocale:


    Lei era bella ed elegante

    L'olfatto, od odorato, e' uno dei cinque sensi.


    Does it make sense?
     
  6. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng

    Grazie mille Elisa!! Of course it makes sense! :thumbsup:
     
  7. dembo Junior Member

    English (UK), England
    Ciao!

    Could someone please explain to me when to use "e" and when to use "ed" for "and" in Italian? I know it has something to do with vowels!

    Any help much appreciated.

    Grazie.
     
  8. shamblesuk

    shamblesuk Senior Member

    London
    England, English
    Think of it like 'a car' or 'an orange' and you're 95% there! There are some slight exceptions that I'm sure someone with more time on their hands can explain!
     
  9. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    I'ts only a matter of euphony. There is no fault in omitting the "d".
    You append a "d" to the conjunction "e" before any following word beginning by a vowel.

    Uinni
     
  10. dembo Junior Member

    English (UK), England
    So do you use "ed" before all vowels? I'm sure I have seen "e" before a lot of vowel initial words. I'm confused!
     
  11. shamblesuk

    shamblesuk Senior Member

    London
    England, English
    Are you sure you're not confusing 'e' (and) with 'è' (it, it is, he is etc)?

    Plus you can add 'd' to 'a' (at, to) and 'o' (or, less common).
     
  12. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    In principle, yes. It is a question of personal style (for example I use it 99% of times :) )
    As I told you. It is not a "true" error if you omit the "d", but sometimes the sound is not that good:

    Il mio ed il tuo amico
    Il mio e il tuo amico

    Certanily less euphonic before an "e":

    ha salutato e è uscito (correct, but: :()
    ha salutato ed è uscito (correct, but: :))

    Uinni
     
  13. dembo Junior Member

    English (UK), England
    No, I don't think I am. Thanks anyway! If its no fault to omit the "d" I'm not too worried anyway.

    Grazie.
     
  14. shamblesuk

    shamblesuk Senior Member

    London
    England, English
    'Times' non suona bene, meglio usare 'of the time'

     
  15. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Thank you. Initially I wrote down "99% of the time" but then I was afraid it would have meant "99% del tempo", so I changed it to "99% of times" to translate "99% delle volte"... But I was wrong all the same! :eek:

    Uinni
     
  16. dembo Junior Member

    English (UK), England
    OK, thanks, so does that apply to "h" initial words as well? (since H is silent).
     
  17. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Being an "euphonic" element of the language, it "has" to be used only before non sounding h, where the sound of the following vowel drives the pronunciation.

    Ho bevuto ed ho mangiato molto

    Uinni
     
  18. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    ;)
     
  19. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    In another thread on the same topic, Silvia wrote:
     
  20. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Still a question of linguistic "debate"... :)
    Yet I find her indications quite complete and synthetical.

    Uinni
     
  21. day_von_j Junior Member

    UK English
    I am just confused about something.. When do I change "E" and in "And" in "Ed"? Is it before a vowell?

    Eg) anche la sua cucina ha una storia molta lunga ed interessante

    Thanks.
     
  22. In Italian, when the word after "e" starts with a vowel you can put "ed" or "ad" or "od(archaic)".

    Examples:

    "Luca ha mangiato un panino ed è andato a casa"
    "Stefano è andato ad un congresso".
    "L'olfatto, od odorato, e' uno dei cinque sensi."

    In Italian grammar this rule is called "congiunzione eufonica".
     
  23. Alan7075

    Alan7075 Senior Member

    As a general rule, before words starting with vowels.

    * Bevo solo birra ed acqua.
    * Marco ed Elena sono miei amici
    * Bello vivere ed incontrarsi a Roma
    * Ti ho visto prima in ufficio ed ora sei ancora qui. Che piattola :D
    * Prendo spaghetti alla carbonara ed un piatto di formaggi misti della casa, grazie.

    Ciao Ciao
     
  24. debboa Senior Member

    Genova, Italia
    Italia, Italiano
    Correct. The same happens with "a" and "ad" ("ad un certo punto").

    But what did you mean with the "and" part of your question?

    A
     
  25. Benzene

    Benzene Senior Member

    GENOA (ITALY)
    Italian, Italy
    Hi!

    Hi!

    Two conjunctions, "e", "o", and a preposition "a", allow the addition of a "d" to tie itself in better way to the word that follows it ("d") and which begins with vocal. But is it always necessary to write ed, od, ad ? I am giving you my personal suggestion: use the d when the initial vowel of the following word is the same one: a amare, ed europeo, od ottenere; not use it when the initial vowel of the following word is different: a esempio, e io, o anche ; not even use it when, also being the initial vowel of the following word the same one, there is near to it another "d" to avoid noise to the ear: a Andrea, e educato, o occhio. It is easy for obvious reasons that "a", "o"and, "a" without "d" follow the opposite rule.

    Your comments are appreciated!

    Bye,

    Benzene
     
  26. alfie1888

    alfie1888 Senior Member

    Kent, England
    English - England
    I have a few questions concerning what's mentioned in the heading as well as a few others that have been bothering me these last few months that I have started to learn Italian.

    As the rules are only one question per post, please check the subsequent posts I have made today in the Italian-English forum.

    Allora, it is my understanding that for the words "e" ("and") and "a" ("to", etc.) it is possible to add the letter 'd' on the end of those if the next word begins with a vowel. My Italian teacher, who is English, says that it's not obligatory and that many Italians don't do it. I make a point of doing it always because, as a Greek speaker, I'm all about things like this (I make a point to add in a final ν when needed on masculine words in the same kind of situation). My other Italian teacher, who actually is Italian, is much more strict with this and I've heard her when speaking add the 'd'.

    My question is: is it best to add the 'd' or is it something that a lot of Italians don't do? If I persist with it, will I sound too posh?


    Vi ringrazio anticipatamente!

    Nevicava e faceva molto freddo. Arrivai alla stazione, guardai in giro ed un uomo si avvicinò subito. - Ho visto il cappo e ho portato i documenti...

    (Would it be terrible to add that 'd' when 'e' is followed by 'ho'? Just wondering...)

    And:

    Pioveva, ma non faceva troppo freddo. I due studenti arrivarono alla casa della signora; aprirono la porta ed entrarono. Sentirono subito una voce. - Ah, siete arrivati! Avete avuto qualche problema coi treni oggi?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2012
  27. infinite sadness

    infinite sadness Senior Member

    sicilia
    bilingue siciliano-italiano
    It needs to add the letter "d" only in the last sentence, because the initial vowel of the following word is the same of the previous one (e - e).

    In the other sentences (e un uomo, e ho portato), in my opinion, it's better not to add "d".
     
  28. alfie1888

    alfie1888 Senior Member

    Kent, England
    English - England
    That sounds like a good stead-fast rule I could follow about when it's the SAME vowel. Thank you, infinite sadness
     
  29. Gianfry

    Gianfry Senior Member

    Brighton, Uk
    Italian
    I agree with infinite (and benzene). I only use the euphonic "d" when the two vowels are the same one...
     
  30. fabri85 Senior Member

    English(UK)/Italian - bilingual
    +1
     
  31. luway

    luway Senior Member

    Same for me: I never add the 'd' if the following word begins with a different vocal, when I write for sure (I'm less conscious of my pronunciation in all of those cases, but since to my hear it sounds bit 'heavy', it's likely that I don't say it, either).

    That said, an exception seems to be just the very common expression up there: ad esempio, not a esempio, because it's a form that is 'crystalllized', in our language (s. here, Accademia della Crusca).
     

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