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eine "falsche Konfrontation" zwischen Christen und Muslimen

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by Lola Lola, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Lola Lola Senior Member

    English, UK
    The title phrase is taken from a remark made my Wulff about the situation between Muslims and Christians in Turkey and Germany.

    The whole sentence:

    Er warnte davor, sich in eine "falsche Konfrontation" zwischen Christen und Muslimen treiben zu lassen.

    What exactly is meant by "falsche Konfrontation"?

    Surely it can't literally mean "false confrontation"? Would it be something like "unnecessary confrontation"?

    So:

    He warned against drifting into an unnecessary confrontation between Christians and Muslims.

    Thanks
     
  2. perpend Senior Member

    American English
    It's a tricky sentence, since it's somehow a little political, even though about religion.

    I understand it more like: He warned against getting into unfounded/fabricated/forced confrontations ...

    In other words, don't get sucked into polarized views between Christians and Muslims.

    ??? I'm sorry, but I may not be explaining this well.

    Native German speakers will be along soon!

    It does sort of mean "unnecessary", as you mentioned.
     
  3. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Deutschland (Hamburg)
    German/Germany
    Ich glaube, nur Wulff selbst weiß, was er damit gemeint hat. Für mich ist es nicht unmittelbar verständlich, sondern verdammt mehrdeutig.

    Unnecessary / unfounded / fabricated all fit well enough.
     
  4. Robocop Senior Member

    Central Switzerland
    (Swiss) German
    As has been said already, this statement is ambiguous and only the author himself could clarify what he meant exactly. However, I would like to point out that this statement carries a (possibly unwanted?) implication (owing to the common pairing of "richtig" and "falsch"): It makes us think that there is a "richtige Konfrontation zwischen Christen und Muslimen". In other words, confrontation is good if only it is done the right way.
     
  5. perpend Senior Member

    American English
    That's a very interesting observation, Robocop. So maybe "unintended" would be a good alternative for "falsch"? I guess, as you and Kajjo have said, only he will know (and his wife ... maybe :), wobei ich gar nicht weiss, ob er verheiratet ist).
     
  6. Dan2

    Dan2 Senior Member

    US
    US English
    Actually, I can easily imagine reading
    He warned against allowing oneself to get drawn into a false confrontation between Christians and Muslims.
    and for me this sentence would have exactly the range of meanings suggested by perpend and Kajjo. (And with respect to Robo's comment, the antonym commonly paired with "false" in English is "true", and I suppose the English sentence could be construed as suggesting that there is a "true" confrontation to be considered.)

    Also wenn die Verwendung des Wortes "falsch" im deutschen Satz wegen seiner Mehrdeutigkeit euch nicht gefällt, wird auf genau die gleiche Weise "false" in einer englischen Übertragung wegen einer identischen Mehrdeutigkeit problematisch wirken. In diesem Sinne ist "false" vielleicht die beste Übersetzung. :)
     
  7. Robocop Senior Member

    Central Switzerland
    (Swiss) German
    Focus:
    Wulff clearly spoke against a confrontation. Yet in his attempt to add a personal evaluation to his appeal (==> confrontation is or would be wrong in his opinion) made a mistake by adding the here misplaced/redundant adjective "falsch", thus shifting the focus from "confrontation" to the attribute "falsch".
    To conclude, in German, the phrase "eine Konfrontation, die man für falsch (verfehlt, etc.) hält" cannot be shortened to "eine falsche Konfrontation" without changing the meaning.
     
  8. perpend Senior Member

    American English
    Wie wäre es dann mit "verkehrte Konfrontation"? Mittlerweile, denke ich, dass wir doch gemeinsam dahinter kommen können, wie er es gemeint hat. Und der neue Papst würde es so wollen.

    Dies halte ich für interessant.

    http://www.eulenspiegel-zeitschrift.de/index.php/auslese/44-wulff-jetzt-zeigt-er-sein-wahres-gesicht

    Links*: Meine eindringliche Bitte an alle lautet: Lassen wir uns nicht in eine falsche Konfrontation treiben.

    Rechts*: Wulff spielt hier auf seine Lieblingsstelle im Koran an, die von der richtigen Konfrontation spricht: Sure 8, Vers 12: »... In die Herzen der Ungläubigen werde Ich Schrecken werfen. Treffet (sie) oberhalb des Nackens und schlagt ihnen die Fingerspitzen ab!« Vor allem diese Stelle war es, die Christen in ganz Deutschland provozierte.

    *Jeweils im Format der Website

    Or, as we say, the more the know, the less you know. Könnte hier auch zutreffen. :)
     
  9. Sowka

    Sowka Forera und Moderatorin

    Hannover
    German, Northern Germany
    Hello :)

    I don't think that your quote helps clarify the matters, perpend. The "Eulenspiegel" is a satirical magazine, and so it's its job to present quotes in unusual combinations.

    I agree with Robocop's analysis in post #7.
     
  10. perpend Senior Member

    American English
    The thing is that the original, in FAZ, but I may be wrong, puts it in quotes, so it clouds the whole matter.

    In other words ...
    "falsche Konfrontation"
    vs.
    falsche Konfrontation
     

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