EN: Ose seulement ne pas me rendre mes clefs !

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by Tristann, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Tristann Junior Member

    Français - France
    Comment dîtes-vous : Ose seulement! ne pas me rendre mes clefs...

    Don't you dare not to give back my keys?
    Dare not to give back my keys?
    Dare... not to give back my keys?

    Dans une phrase affirmative y a-t-il une manière d'employer cette tournure?

    Est-ce que :
    I dare not to give back your keys!
    est équivalent à :
    I daren't to give back your keys!

    Est-ce que je peux dire : I dare to give not your keys (back)... back not? give back not?

    Je suis un peu perdu.
    Give me the key!!!
     
  2. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    Bienvenue, Tristann. :)

    Ose seulement ! = Just you try!

    "Ose seulement! ne pas me rendre mes clefs..." donnera alors Just you try not returning my keys!, ce qui est effectivement un peu maladroit en raison du negatif et de la forme -ING dans la 2e moitié de la phrase. On dira plutôt Don't you dare keep my keys! en déplaçant la négation sur le début de la phrase.

    Dare not to give back my keys
    = N'ose Ose ne pas me rendre mes clés !

    I dare not (soutenu) give back your keys = I daren't (soutenu, vieilli) give back your keys = I don't dare (courant) give back your keys = Je n'ose pas te rendre tes clés
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  3. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Il y a un n' ou un ne de trop selon le sens voulu. ;)

    Dare not to give back my keys! = Ose / Essaie un peu de ne pas me rendre mes clés !
    [[Dare not give back my keys!]]* = N'ose pas / N'essaie même pas de me rendre mes clefs !

    (*) I'm not sure the semi-modal is possible in the imperative.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  4. radagasty Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    Australia, Cantonese
    I agree; Jann's example sounded strange to me. Modal verbs are not used in the imperative, and to dare should be used as a full verb here, as in 'Dare to dream!'

    As for the OP's question, I would suggest 'Just you dare!' as a translation of Ose seulement!
     
  5. Tochka Senior Member

    What springs naturally to my mind is in the negative imperative: "Don't you dare not give me back my keys!" (with emphasis on "dare").
    (Assuming I've corrected understood the original positive expression to be meant as a threat as in "try it and see what happens!")
     
  6. joelooc Senior Member

    French
    I agree with Tochka, but I would simply omit "dare" and say: try not to give me back my keys and see what happens! I gues it's enough to render the threat quality of ose seulement which quite close to "essaie un peu de ne pas + infinitive et tu verras"
     
  7. Tochka Senior Member

    Interesting thought, but it's not quite the way a native speaker would phrase it.* Using the "try it" component, we would be more likely to say something like, "Not give me back my keys? Just try it!". Or, perhaps a better possibility: "You think you'll keep my keys from me, do you? Just try it!"
    -----
    *We mainly use the expression "try not to" when we want to remind or warn someone of something they should be careful not to do: e.g. "Please try not to get mud on the carpet when you come in."
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  8. joelooc Senior Member

    French
    sorry if I stray a little from the original question:
    1)"You think you'll keep my keys from me, do you? Just try it!" Is the affirmative question tag at all possible here?
    2) would "don't you (dare)try me on keeping my keys" work? I'm not too sure about the "on" bit.
     
  9. Tochka Senior Member

     
  10. Tristann Junior Member

    Français - France
    Thank you, but why we say "dare give" but "dare not to give". Why to put an incomplete infinitive in the first one but then a complete one to negate the give in the second one? Can we say "dare to give" instead of "dare give" to explain it?
     
  11. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Dans une phrase affirmative on interrogative, on peut utiliser soit le verbe normal dare suivi d'un infinitif complet avec to (comme want), soit le semi-modal dare suivi d'un infinitif sans to (comme can). Mais le semi-modal est impossible à l'impératif.

    I dare to give back your keys.
    I dare give back your keys.

    Dare not to give back my keys!
    Dare not give back my keys! :thumbsdown:

    Mais on peut dire à la place :

    Don't you dare not give back my keys!
     
  12. Tristann Junior Member

    Français - France
    I think I understand thank you Maître Capello
     

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