EN: when + tense (present / future)

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by claire68, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. claire68

    claire68 Senior Member


    J'ai un petit problème pour traduire le passage de cette chanson, car je ne comprend pas la concordance des temps ici:

    "The world has turned the day to dark
    I leave this night with heavy heart
    When I return to dry your eyes
    I will sing this lullaby"

    Ici, ça ne devrait pas être "when I will return"? Puisque après il y a l'emploi du futur. Sinon, ça n'a pas de sens:

    "Quand je reviens sécher tes larmes
    Je chanterai cette berceuse"

    Ou alors est-ce le présent qu'on utilise aussi dans le futur (je ne sais pas comment on l'appelle) quand on emploi "when I am old" pour dire quand je serai vieux?

    Merci d'avance!

    Moderator note: Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  2. RuK Senior Member

    Outside Paris
    English/lives France
    Tout à fait, Quand je reviens, je chanterai.
  3. pieanne

    pieanne Senior Member

    Nice Hinterland
    Non, il faut utiliser le futur dans les deux phrases, bien qu'on ne l'utilise qu'une fois en anglais:
    Quand je reviendrai, je te chanterai
  4. claire68

    claire68 Senior Member

    Mais ce que je ne comprend pas, c'est que "when i return" est écrit noir sur blanc dans le livret du cd (donc il n'y pas certainement pas de faute) et à l'oreil on entend pas de "will" ou de " 'll "...
    Bizarre... il n'y a donc pas d'autre explication...?
  5. pieanne

    pieanne Senior Member

    Nice Hinterland
    En anglais, on ne doit pas utiliser le futur dans une subordonnée de temps introduite par "when" or "as soon as". Le futur utilisé dans la principale suffit. :)
  6. p0p-in Member

    French and France
    Je voudrais savoir comment marche l'accord du verbe avec WHEN

    - When + présent : When I am with him, I'm happy

    - When + futur : When I am 64, I'll be an old person

    - When + passé : When I was there, I was fine

    Est ce que tous ces accords sont bons ?
    Pour le futur on ne doit pas mettre : When I will be 64, I'll be an old person
    Il me semble que cela ne convient pas, n'est ce pas ?
  7. dragonfly37

    dragonfly37 Senior Member

    U.S.A., English
    Oui, tous les accords sont bons, on peut utliser "when" dans chaque cas. Il ne faut pas mettre "When I will" - c'est comme, par exemple, "When we go to the store, what will we buy?" La première partie est (essentiellement) au présent. Je ne peut pas expliquer la grammaire vraiment...
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  8. The MightyQ Senior Member

    English, Canada
    But oddly,

    When will I be 64?
    When am I 64?

    can both work.
  9. marget Senior Member

    If you are asking about English usage, "When will I be 64?" is correct. I think we could say "When am I turning 64?" , but "When am I 64"? doesn't sound right to me, unless it were used colloquially. In French, the verb would have to be expressed in the future.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  10. wildan1

    wildan1 Moderando ma non troppo

    Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
    When I'm 64?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  11. The MightyQ Senior Member

    English, Canada
    "When am I 64" does sound odd in isolation, but it can work.

    I am 50 this year. When am I 64?
    Sounds fine to me.

    You will be 64 in 2020. When am I 64?
    Also sounds natural.

    Others may disagree...
  12. olliemae

    olliemae Senior Member

    Kyoto, Japan
    New Zealand/America, English
    I can imagine a situation for everything. For instance, it's your 64th birthday, but in your dotage you have forgotten at what time exactly you were born. You might look at a clock and ask, "When am I 64?"

    Otherwise, "When will I be 64?" is correct.
  13. Canard Senior Member

    Portland, OR
    English, USA
    I don't like "When am I turning 64?" I'd much more willingly say "When do I turn 64?" For the Frenchies: it's an issue of describing a brief event as though it were a state.
  14. Jocaste

    Jocaste Senior Member

    Bonjour !
    Je sais que lorsque l'on dit en français "quand je mangerai ..." on dit en anglais "when I eat", mais je voulais savoir si le verbe anglais était la base verbale ou le verbe au présent ?
    Je m'explique : "quand il mangera" pourrait se traduire par "when he eats" ou "when he eat" ?

    Merci pour votre aide :)
  15. DearPrudence

    DearPrudence Dépêche Mod

    French (lower Normandy)

    Il s'agit bien d'un simple présent.
    "When he eats..." :)

    (hum, j'aurais pu essayer de faire plus court :D)
  16. loulou40 Senior Member


    I would know what kind of tense there is after "when".
    Is it right :
    -after present, when is following by past. For example : When he came, tell him to...?
    -after past, when is following by plus-perfect. For exmple : He told me when he had come ?

    Thanks :)
  17. marget Senior Member

    In the first example, you definitely need the present tense... when he comes.
    I think the pluperfect is correct in the second one.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  18. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    When he came, tell him to... :cross: = quand il est venu, dis-lui de... (ça n'a pas de sens !) :)
    When he comes, tell him to... :tick: = quand il viendra/arrivera, dis-lui de... (NB. il faut employer le présent en anglais)
    He told me when he had come :tick: = Il m'a dit à quelle heure il était venu. (NB. when n'a plus la même fonction grammaticale)
    He told me when he arrived = phrase ambiguë = Il me l'a dit lors de son arrivée // Il m'a dit à quelle heure il est (était) arrivé.
  19. Zone

    Zone Senior Member

    France, French

    I need help from the native speakers. I wonder if I must use "will" in the following example.

    "One day, when I <will> have enough time, I will look into this".

    Now, I know that will could not be used if "one day" was missing.

    "I will look into this when I have enough time".

    Here, the "when" clause expresses a condition that has to be met first. So will cannot be used.

    But when you use a "when" clause to clarify an indicator of time that refers to the future, do you have to use "will" or not.

    I've never really understood the rule fully so if anyone could explain to me when you must and mustn't use "will" in when clauses, I'd be vrey grateful.
  20. cropje_jnr

    cropje_jnr Senior Member

    Canberra, Australia
    English - Australia

    No, you don't need "will" here, and in fact I think it sounds better without it.

    The future tense is used in French in these situations, I know, but generally this isn't the case in English. I don't think there's any steadfast rule dictating when and when not to add "will" (and hence place verbs in the future tense), for the simple reason that it is optional and, furthermore, the future tense is not very frequently used in this type of sentence construction.
  21. Zone

    Zone Senior Member

    France, French
    Thank you.
  22. samavecelan New Member

    U.S. English
    I think it depends on the ambiguity. If it's some unknown day in the future, I'd say "one day, when I have enough time," but if it's a specific, known time you could say "Sunday, when I will have enough time...." to emphasize that, on Sunday, you know that you *will* have that time.
  23. Areyou Crazy

    Areyou Crazy Senior Member

    Versailles PARIS
    England English speaker
    you have a relative subordinate clause
    one action depends on another before it starts
    so you only need one future reference
    to my understanding it is only possible to have one reference to the future when there is a relative subordinate clause

    'one day' implies future
    i think the problem is that you have 3 clauses related to each other
    one day, when i have time , i will look into this
    when i have time should be put in parenthesis in my opinion
    the sentence seems strange but I can't explain why

    in effect what you are saying is
    "one day i will look into this
    the 'when i have time' part is supplementary
  24. sylvie38

    sylvie38 Senior Member

    France - French

    I'm feeling confused with the choice of the right tense:

    "The cycles 2 and 3 will be carried out when the initial temperature set-point will again be hit.
    This test ends after the third cycle, when the oil temperature again reaches the temperature set-point at T4."

    thank you for your help
  25. Fred_C

    Fred_C Senior Member

    In English, the use of the future tense inside a WHEN clause is forbidden, I think, as it is inside an IF clause.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  26. cropje_jnr

    cropje_jnr Senior Member

    Canberra, Australia
    English - Australia
    I'm not sure whether it's actually forbidden, but you're quite right - natives will always use the present tense in these cases.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2012
  27. Meyer Wolfsheim Senior Member

    East Egg

    Non, il ne se traduit pas par "when he eat", parce que le mot "when" toujours exprime le present d'un verbe quand on refère au futur avec une condition.

    "Quand il mangera, il n'aura plus faim"

    When he eats, he won't be hungry anymore.

    Peut-être qu'on a utilisé "eat" avec la troisième personne singulière il y a longtemps. C'est evident en espagnol, où le "quand" peut exprimer le subjonctif pour introduire la doute o impossibilité. Alors, on ne sait jamais quand il mangera, donc on peut l'examiner comme une phrase subjonctive. Mais, cette construction n'existe plus en anglais ou français. Il est possible qu'on peut la trouver en les vieux chefs d'oeveures d'anglais; "when+present subjunctive."
  28. Rocksong Senior Member


    'I don't know when I will be/I am going'

    Lequel des deux temps est correct? (car il y a 'when' dans la phrase donc bon...)

    Merci ;)
  29. sarie Senior Member

    New York
    English - USA
    I don't know when I'm going.
    I don't know when I'll be going.

    Both are fine-- they mean the same thing.
  30. Rocksong Senior Member

    Ah d'accord :)

    Je croyais qu'après when, as soon as, although..., on ne pouvait pas mettre 'will'

    Donc peut-on dire (si l'on veut exprimer une idée dans le futur)

    I will go out when the rain stops
  31. mancunienne girl Senior Member

    English - England
    Yes, you can. You can also say "I'm going out when the rain stops".
  32. Oddmania

    Oddmania Senior Member

    Seulement quand la proposition principale est au futur (comme dans I will go out when the rain stops) :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  33. Rocksong Senior Member

    Donc on ne peut pas dire:

    'I will go out when the rain will stop' (j'avais déjà fait un topic sur ça je crois )

    Donc on peut dire:

    'It will be different when you're gone'

    mais pas 'It will be different when you'll be gone'

    En fait, on ne peut pas mettre I'll, I hope(...) + will
    Mais on peut mettre I'm going out when the rain will stop/stops
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  34. quinoa Senior Member

    On peut avoir will après when lorsque when n'introduit pas une circonstancielle de temps mais une interrogative indirecte.
    "I don't know when he will come/be coming" comes from the question "When will he come/be coming?"
  35. Rocksong Senior Member

    OK ;)

    Merci à tous :)

    On peut dire 'When your're ready, tell me' et 'When you'll be ready, tell me' . C'est la même chose?
  36. sarie Senior Member

    New York
    English - USA
    On peut dire 'When you're ready, tell me" mais l'autre phrase n'est pas correct.
  37. Rocksong Senior Member

    Sarie >> On ne peut pas dire la deuxième car il y a 'when' c'est ça?
  38. quinoa Senior Member

    Tell me when you are ready = relation temporelle entre les deux actions.
    (quand peut être remplacé par lorsque)

    Tell me when you will be ready = recherche d'information sur la date ou l'heure exacte à la quelle tu seras prêt. Ici when sera porteur d'accent.
    (quand = à quel moment précis)
  39. iosonolobo Senior Member

    USA English
    I cannot parse these as fully as some of you can, but I thought this example might be pertinent:

    "When he eats, he is happy" or "He is happy when he eats."

    This case covers a continuum of time, and is not limited to just the future.

  40. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    A continuum, yes -- and in such cases, we can replace "when" with "whenever." :)

    If "when" is used as a synonym for "whenever," then we can use the present in both clauses in English... and the same happens to be true in French (i.e., if we mean "whenever," we can use quand and the present in both clauses).
  41. Marie3933

    Marie3933 Senior Member

    Est-ce que cette règle est valable avec d'autres expressions de temps ? Par exemple avec "by the time" ?
    Doit-on dire "By the time Mr Jones finishes / has finished this report, it will be too late" ?
    ou "By the time Mr Jones will finish / will have finished this report, it will be too late" ?
  42. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Oui, absolument. :)

    By the time he finishes, it will be too late.
  43. Marie3933

    Marie3933 Senior Member

    Merci bien, Maître Capello. :)

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