Es ist jemand / Es gibt jemand(en)

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by popotla, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. popotla Senior Member

    British English
    Ich hoffe, es ist jemand da, der mir helfen kann. That is true! I hope there is. It is also something I’d like to ask about.

    The structure of this sentence, Ich hoffe, es ist jemand da, der mir helfen kann is, to me, counter-intuitive. There are, of course, many more possible examples.

    z.B. Es ist immer jemand dabei, der fragt, was geschiet, wenn .......................... .
    Es ist immer jemand anwesend.
    Es ist immer jemand von der Familie bei mir.
    Es ist immer jemand erreichbar. usw.

    But why can’t I replace “es ist” with “es gibt”?

    The following, I think, would be right:

    Du bist niemals allein. Es gibt immer jemand, der für Dich da ist. (**Or should that be jemanden?)
    Es gibt immer jemand, dem es schlechter geht. (**Or should that be jemanden?)

    I’m aware, of course, that with “es ist”, there’s always a word like da, hier, anwesend, oben, unten, drinnen, bei uns, usw, but that doesn’t explain for me the difference.

    A final example: (Somewhere outside there’s a noise): Ist es jemand da? OR Gibt es jemand da? OR Gibt es jemand? I think the first would be right, as would “Wer ist da?”

    Ich hoffe, es ist jemand da, der mir helfen kann!

    Danke.
     
  2. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Deutschland (Hamburg)
    German/Germany
    This sentence is correct and idiomatic: Ich hoffe, es ist jemand da, der mir helfen kann!

    Also correct: Ich hoffe, es gibt jemanden, der mir helfen kann.

    Both sentences differ slightly in meaning. The first emphasises on "being available / being present", while the second sentence is more like "there exists someone, who...".
     
  3. ablativ Senior Member

    German(y)
    Your final example is wrong!

    When you think logically, you'll find out why it isn't correkt:

    Wer ist da? :tick:---> ist wer da? ---> ist jemand da? :tick:

    OR Gibt es jemand da? :cross: OR Gibt es jemand? This question could only be asked if you want to know: Gibt es jemand(en), der mir helfen kann (etc.)?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  4. popotla Senior Member

    British English
    Thanks, clear.

    So "Gibt es jemanden?" is the "full" (acc.) form, commonly abbreviated to "Gibt es jemand?"?
     
  5. ablativ Senior Member

    German(y)
    Correct! You can see the rules at canoonet here.
     
  6. popotla Senior Member

    British English
    Thanks. I thought all this was clear, but it isn't.

    If one can ask "Ist jemand da, der Deutsch kann?" Why can't one say "Gibt jemand, der Deutsch kann?" Conversely "Gibt es jemand der Deutsch kann?" but not, I think, "Ist es jemand hier, der Deutsch kann?" If not, why not?



    "Es ist kein Bier im Kühlschrank, implies, doesn’t it (?) “but there should be; there usually is“ or “Have you forgotten to buy some?“ What abot "Es gibt kein Bier im Kühlschrank"?

    What would one say in a drinks shop where there was a fridge that normally held beer but today contained only Coca-Cola? Entschuldigung, es gibt kein Bier im Kühlschrank or .................... , es ist kein Bier im Kühlschrank. ??

    Would one say (though I’m sure it’s untrue, in practice) Es gibt kein Bier in Saudi Arabia (meaning You can’t buy it because in this country, it doesn’t exist)?

    Would one say (in practice extremely unlikely!) Es ist kein Bier in Berlin, meaning it’s all been drunk and no more has been brewed or delivered, and beer is therefore unavailable?
     
  7. popotla Senior Member

    British English
    Thanks. I thought all this was clear, but it isn't.

    If one can ask "Ist jemand da, der Deutsch kann?" Why can't one say "Gibt jemand, der Deutsch kann?" Conversely "Gibt es jemand der Deutsch kann?" but not, I think, "Ist es jemand hier, der Deutsch kann?" If not, why not?



    "Es ist kein Bier im Kühlschrank, implies, doesn’t it (?) “but there should be; there usually is“ or “Have you forgotten to buy some?“ What about "Es gibt kein Bier im Kühlschrank"?

    What would one say in a drinks shop where there was a fridge that normally held beer but today contained only Coca-Cola? Entschuldigung, es gibt kein Bier im Kühlschrank or .................... , es ist kein Bier im Kühlschrank. ??

    Would one say (though I’m sure it’s untrue, in practice) Es gibt kein Bier in Saudi Arabia (meaning You can’t buy it because in this country, it doesn’t exist)?

    Would one say (in practice extremely unlikely!) Es ist kein Bier in Berlin, meaning it’s all been drunk and no more has been brewed or delivered, and beer is therefore unavailable?
     
  8. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    I agree that it is wrong in the given context.
    But I do not think it is wrong in a grammatically sense.

    It means basically "Existiert jemand da? and "da" is emphasized. "Da" means "dort" in this case.
    Default is "Gibt es da jemand/jemanden?"

    It is not good style in most cases.
     
  9. StephalumpxD New Member

    Vienna - Austria
    Austrian German
    I couldn't have explained it better than Kajjo.
    "Es gibt" means "there is" in the sense of "there exists". It is used to state facts like "Es gibt Kängurus in Australien"
    But when you are in the zoo and you see a kangaroo you say "Da ist ein Känguru".
    "Es ist" is more temporarily.
    Another example: "Du bist im Wohnzimmer" equals "Du befindest dich im Wohnzimmer"
    But you couldn't say "Es gibt dich im Wohnzimmer" because you are in the living room only for the time being. Also no one would ever say that.

    If you would like to read something better structured on this matter I've found this :

    http://books.google.at/books?id=QQj...iKIJHWsgb5w4Bo&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=true

    Especially the second paragraph is very helpful, I think.
    I would like to comment though on the fourth paragraph. It is perfectly true but it doesn't really emphasize on the semantic differences.
    I would use "Vor dem Haus ist eine große Eiche"/"Eine große Eiche ist vor dem Haus"/"Es steht eine große Eiche vor dem Haus" to describe a picture for example or I would use it in the same way as with the kangaroo in the zoo. (they all mean the same but the latter sounds best to me)
    But if someone came and asked me where they could find an oak I would say: " Es gibt eine große Eiche vor dem Haus".
    I don't know if my oak-example is in any way comprehensible but if you don't understand it just forget it. It's not that important.

    I hope I could help instead of confusing you even more.
    It's not so easy for me to explain these things because they are so natural to me and I've never needed to think of them that way. I can't imagine how it would be to have to learn German as a foreign language. But anyway keep up the good work :)
     

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