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Etylomogy: börek boreq boereg burek brik

Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages and Linguistics (EHL)' started by Nikola, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. Nikola Senior Member

    English
    Turkey,Armenia,Serbia,Tunisia and other places in that part of the world eat this pastry. Does anyone know the origin of this word?
     
  2. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    As far as I could go with my resources the word is borrowed from Turkish börek which is borrowed from Persian burek which means any meal made of dough. I don't know if the word is still used in Persian and is the word PIE origin or not.
     
  3. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    Wikipedia : Burek originated in Turkish cuisine (cf. Baklava) and is one of its most significant and, in fact, ancient elements, having been developed by the Turks of Central Asia before their westward migration to Anatolia.
     
  4. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    On line Etymology:
    Pirogi-1854, from Yiddish, from Rus. pl. of pirog "pie," perhaps borrowed from the Turkic language of the Kazan Tatars (cf. Turk. borek).
     
  5. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    My source is from Slovenian Etymology Dictionary. How would the word from Tatars travel to Yiddish, it seems very odd, since Jews don't eat this kind of dish, maybe they do now, but I don't think back then they did. And also how did we get from borek to pirog, that too is weird.
    I don't think the words are related, perhaps I am wrong.
    Somehow I'm not satisfied with explanation. It just sounds odd.
     
  6. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    It says pirogi comes from Rus. perhaps from Tatars via Russian. Jews eat pirogis (not with cheese and meat together)
    In Israel they have bourekas. So we can see that probably Turkish was the source for the word in other languages since it existed even before the migration west. That does not mean that your Slovenian dictionary is wrong it may have come from Persian first then to Central Asia. Does your source say it with certainty or perhaps?
     
  7. Nikola Senior Member

    English
    Thanks guys. Can anyone confirm the Persian origin?
     
  8. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    My source says with cetrainty it says it's Persian names the word and then the etymology stops. Like most of them do when the word is of Turkish origins.
     
  9. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Russian "pirog" (пирог) has nothing to do with any Turkish language, originating from Ancient-Slavic пыро < *pyro - grain plant (comp. Greek puros - wheat) < PIE *pu-ro (also Russian пырей - couch-grass).
     
  10. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    In my Etymological dict. of the Iraninan languages I failed to find anything similar to this word.
     
  11. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    That's exactly what I was saying, it sruck me odd the Tatar region and the comparison between borek and pirog.
     
  12. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    Try searching for the same word I mentioned burek but u has to have a macron above it. And the source is Škaljić about turcisms in Serbo-Croatian.
     
  13. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I have checked the whole letter "b" - nothing about wheat or bread.
     
  14. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    I don't know if you can get access to it but try Petar Skok Etimološki rječnik or find Turkish etymology dictionary somewhere. Send a private message to Duya or Dudasd (I don't know which two), but some of them has one. I think you should try the thread where they talk about the etymology of the word Turk.
     
  15. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I've checked also Tuvinian etym. dict. - nothing.
     
  16. dihydrogen monoxide Senior Member

    Slovene, Serbo-Croat
    I'd like to wait for a native Persian speaker to confirm the word burek so we can go any further. It's interesting since you can't find his source (writer of the Slovene etymology dictionary).
     
  17. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    It's burak in Persian (entry in Dehkhoda dictionary). However, only one type of it called sanbuse is generally known these days. The typical ingredients are red meat, potato, fragrant herbs like mint, red pepper and other seasonings; but they can vary as per one's taste and in its modern form, it can even have those of a pizza (cheese, sausage, etc.). It's wrapped anyway triangularly and is quite greasy (it's fried). Sanbuse is a generic name for anything triangular e.g. in tailoring it is used for triangular shapes of clothes (e.g. fichu). This dish originates in south of Iran (Ababdan) and in Iran it's known as a "southern" dish.

    As for the meaning of burak it can be from bur of buridan (to cut, to slice) and the diminutive suffix -ak but I'm not sure and it's just a guess!
     
  18. J.F. de TROYES Senior Member

    francais-France
    Wikipedia (burek ) gives the root bur- 'to twist' as Turkik , but wasn't it borrowed from Persian. Is the etymology of Persian burak known ?
     
  19. Rajki Junior Member

    Budapest
    Hungarian
    In Israel today, the dish is very popular, sold everywhere on street corners. It is called bourekas - obviously the Greek name of the Turkish pastry called börek.

    As to the etymology of the Turkish word, what about bürk (meaning fur cap in Old Turkic)? Assuming the form of the pastry seemed similar to that of a fur cap ...
     
  20. Awwal12 Senior Member

    Moscow, the RF
    Russian
    Some linguists (G.J.Ramstedt, A.M.Räsänen) really supposed that the word "pirog" was loaned from Turkic languages, but the majority doesn't agree with them.
     
  21. Rajki Junior Member

    Budapest
    Hungarian
    In my large Persian dictionary (Junker / Alavi 1986) no traces of any *burek. In modern Iran this kind of pastry exists, but it is called sambuse.
     

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