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Feminine nouns that do not have the ta marbuta

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Qittat Ulthar, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    I was just thinking, in Arabic there are a handful of nouns, like 7arb, that are feminine despite not having a ta marbuta. There aren't very many of those and I am sure lists must exist of all Arabic nouns which are feminine despite not having a ta marbuta.

    Would anyone know where to find such a list on line?
     
  2. ayed Senior Member

    Riyadh
    Arabic
  3. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    That is a list for first names for girls. I meant a list of nouns that are feminine but do not end in ta marbuta, like bint, 7arb, arD, shams etc.?
     
  4. ayed Senior Member

    Riyadh
    Arabic
    Just browse the link again and see :
    Under the letter ( ح), you would find: سماح-سحر-سخاء-سناء
    Under the letter(ع), you find : عناس-عواطف
     
  5. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    I am sorry, I am not looking for names, but for nouns, two different things in English.
     
  6. be.010 Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic (Syrian)
    There is plenty of Arabic feminine nouns (and adjectives) that do not end with ta2 marbouta, but there isn't a "cut and dried" list for them...
    Here are some samples:
    The form فعول is said for both feminine and masculine nouns/adjectives: e.g. امرأة عجوز، أكول،
    بتول (virgin, pure)
    لعوب (playful)...
    Other forms are فعلاء and فعلى forms (and some forms ending with اء), which are feminine, though don't end with ta2 marbuuta:
    e.g. عذراء، خضراء،علياء،
    And, you know, there are also nouns that could only be learned by "memorizing them!", e.g.: الشمس، الأرض، السماء، الروح، الريح، العين، الأذن، الإصبع،
    (In Arabic, adjectives are also considered nouns...):)

    Best regards!

    ** P.S. Does "cut and dried" work in the context above?!! Thanks in advance...;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  7. clevermizo Moderator

    St. Louis, MO
    English (USA), Spanish
    We usually say "cut and dry" but come to think of it, "cut and dried" makes more sense:D.
     
  8. be.010 Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic (Syrian)
    Thanks very much my friend!;)
     
  9. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    Exactly, those are the ones I am after. I would assume such a list exists somewhere, but as of yet I haven't found it.
     
  10. be.010 Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic (Syrian)
    Here is exactly what you are looking for, pages 4-19... I am sure you'll love it!;)
     
  11. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    Brilliant! Thank you!
     
  12. eric489 Senior Member

    French
    Still, there is one thing I learned and is pretty helpful when it comes to spotting feminin nouns without ta marbuta.

    "All the nouns which goes in pair, are feminine"

    The word eye, عين is feminine because it goes in pair. ( 2 eyes )

    It also concerns words which semantically go in pair.
    Ex : war/peace
    sun/moon
    sky/earth
    sea/land (total blind guess for this one here, correct me please)

    Also, " All the nouns for objects which can be filled/emptied can be feminine and/or masculine."

    This is just some grammar rules that I picked up during my lessons this year. But since the teacher hasn't got in detail with this ( this was barely mentionned), do verify it. I don't wanna spread bad info.
     
  13. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    These are handy mnemonics, but they are not rules. There are many words which go in pairs but are not feminine, for example nahd.

    Also, moon is masculine (qamar), so is peace (salaam).
     
  14. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    Arabic and English
    As Qittat mentioned, it's not a rule; منخار comes in a pair, but it's masculine so is مبيض (for an internal organ).

    البر والبحر Both are masculine actually :) It also does not apply to السماء والأرض since both are feminine.

    ---

    It's worth mentioning that sometimes even nouns with taa' at-ta'neeth al-marbouta are masculine (but very rare); an example would be ثعلبة, the desease not a she-fox, although it has a taa' it's actually feminine - but this one is easily spotted, it's feminine على اعتبار أنه داء.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  15. eric489 Senior Member

    French
    Thanks for correcting me.

    Also some plural masculine words have a the feminine mark.
    As , sou'al - as 'ila for question - questions
     
  16. Fulan New Member

    French
    hey I'm looking for the exact same thing but the link provided by be.010 is not working anymore, have someone downloaded it?
     
  17. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    The المنجد dictionary lists some of those nouns in two groups: 1. nouns that are feminine 2. nouns that could be both masculine and feminine. However, as far as I know, some nouns of group 1 can be masculine (PS: some of the following words are obsolete).

    1.
    أذن - أرض - أرنب - إصبع - أفعى - بئر - جحيم - جهنم - حرب - دار - ذراع - رِجْل - رحم - رحى - ريح - سَقَر (جهنم) - سنّ - ساق - شمس - شمال - ضبع - عَرُوض - عصا - عقب - عين - فأس - فخذ - فُلك - قدم - قوس - كأس - كتف - كرش - كفّ - نار - نعل - ناب - ورك - يد - يمين
    Here in this group, I know that أرنب - إصبع - ضبع - قوس - ناب are sometimes used in masculine.

    2.
    إبط - إزار - حال - حانوت - خمر - درع - دلو - روح - زقاق - سبيل - سُرى - سروال - سلاح - سكين - سِلْم - سُلَّم - سماء - سوق - صاع - ضُحى - طِرس - طريق - عَجُز - عضُد - عُقاب - عقرب - عنق - عنكبوت - فردوس - فرس - فِهْر - قِدْر - قفا - قميص - كبد - لسان - مِسْك - مِلح - منجنيق - موسًى - نفْس - وراء
    The alphabet letters: ألف - باء - تاء...‏ can be both.
    Note: in this group, some words are only used in masculine today, such as:
    سروال - سلاح - لسان - ملح
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  18. Qittat Ulthar Senior Member

    London, England
    Dutch (Netherlands)
    Sorry, I only noticed this now. I have downloaded the document, if anyone is interested, just send me a PM and I'll send it to you.
     
  19. jmt356 Senior Member

    eric489 posted some useful rules, but later posts indicate that the rules do not always work.
    So is there any way to determine whether a noun is feminine or masculine? Is it all pure memorization or are there guidelines that can be followed?

    I find it confusing that a noun that ends in ء such as ضوء is masculine but another one ending in ء such as سماء is feminine.
     

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