FR: aimer les/des choses bleues

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by solarwind2424, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. solarwind2424 New Member

    Canada, English, French
    can someone help distinguish between "les" and "des". For example would you say:

    "les choses"
    --or--
    "des choses"

    and how would one know the difference and when to use "les" and when to use "des"



    --All help is much appreciated, Thankyou
     
  2. la rose rouge New Member

    United States
    It would depend upon the context in which it was used. Perhaps you could give an example?
     
  3. solarwind2424 New Member

    Canada, English, French
    j'aime "les/des" choses bleu(s)? also do i add the "s" to bleu?

    im not that great in french, im english native, im learning french
     
  4. solarwind2424 New Member

    Canada, English, French
    or... je voudrais travailler sur "les/des" choses...
     
  5. Markus

    Markus Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Canada - English
    Your question is a good one. I would consider myself at an upper-intermediate level and I still have a hard time with this distinction at times. Thanks for asking this question, I look forward to seeing the answers. :)

    Oh, and just so I have something to contribute:

    les choses bleues (e for the feminine, s for the plural)

    Mark
     
  6. solarwind2424 New Member

    Canada, English, French
    thanks markus, i forgot about the feminine part ("-e")
     
  7. la rose rouge New Member

    United States
    Markus would probably be better of than I at answering your question since I'm probably only at the intermediate level with 4 years.

    Personally, I would say: "j'aime les choses bleues" et "je voudrais travailler sur des choses"

    I would say "les" in the first instance because I assume you are referring to things in general, in which case "les" would be used. In the second I used "des" because I interepreted what you were saying as "to work on some things." Honestly, it's just something that you pick up with practice and I don't even know which to use sometimes.
     
  8. Caronium Junior Member

    Canada, QC
    Canada - French ~ English
    Here's my try:

    You need to use "les" when you use "the" in English.
    You need to use "des" when you don't use "the".
    I don't think it works everytime though.

    For example:

    I like the forums. = J'aime les forums.
    I like forums. = J'aime des forums.

    In other words, "les" for defined things, "des" for undefined things.
    Of course, context always helps!
     
  9. fetchezlavache

    fetchezlavache Senior Member

    metz, france
    france
  10. charlie2 Senior Member

    Here is yet another French student, c'est moi. :)
    J'aime le bleu. J'aime le chocolat. Ça prends toujours l'article défini. It does not mean that you like this chocolate (but not that chocolate) or you like this blue (but not that blue).
    The same goes with détester, préférer and adorer.
    A textbook example :
    Les chiens sont fidèles. = Dogs are faithful. It is not just these dogs in front of you.
     
  11. Benjy

    Benjy Senior Member

    Milton Keynes, UK
    English - English
    the clue is in the name of the articles: the most important lesson you can learn is when the french language considers the noun(s) that you are talking about as a defined set or an undefined set.

    il m'a donné des conseils. j'ai suivi les conseils qu'il m'a donnés

    he gave me (an undefinied amount of advice) some advice. i followed the (now defined amount of) advice that he game me.

    other the time that french considers the amount to be defined is when you are talking about the whoel set of somethings

    i like dogs: j'aime les chiens

    because you are implying that when you say "i like dogs" that you like all dogs in general.

    there is also the partatif article to beware of :eek: but thats anthoer lesson ;)

    my only real advice would be to read a lot.. see how french people use articles. there is an underpinning logic to it :) and it won't take you years to get it if you just read a little a day.

    ben
     
  12. Jean-Michel Carrère Senior Member

    French from France
    Emploi de LE, LA, LES en français

    comparer : j'aime le lait : I like milk (en général) but : où as-tu mis le lait ? Where did you put the milk ?
    comparer : les pins et les sapins ( en général ) sont des arbres à feuilles persistantes :
    pine trees and fir trees are evergreens
    mais : les pins et les sapins de la forêt avaient beaucoup souffert :
    the pine trees and the fir trees had suffered a great deal

    :arrow: L'article défini s'emploie en français lorsqu'on parle de quelque chose en général, devant les notions abstraites ( qualités / défauts ) / les sciences / les activités humaines / les matières / les couleurs / les substances …

    On emploie aussi l'article défini en français devant un titre suivi d'un nom propre :
    la Reine Elisabeth II : Queen Elisabeth II /
    le Sénateur Kerry : Senator Kerry / le Capitaine Cook : Captain Cook /
    le Docteur Livingstone : Doctor Livingstone )
    les noms de pays ( à quelques rares exceptions près ) /
    les noms de caps / lacs / monts / de rues / de parcs / de ponts / de fêtes

    Noter aussi l'emploi de l'article en français dans les expressions de "possession" :
    la voiture de Sheila : Sheila's car /
    la maison de M. Farquahrson : Mr Farquahrson's house /
    le journal d'aujourd'hui : today's paper

    On emploi l'article défini aussi en français :

    - dans des expressions de prix : 20 € le mètre ( 20 a yard )

    - dans des expressions de vitesse : 100 km à l'heure : 65 miles per hour

    ( devant un jour de la semaine ou un jour suivi d'une partie de la journée : signifiant 'tous les')
    on …-s
    le mardi : on Tuesdays / le vendredi soir : on Friday nights

    ( devant un nom suivi d'un numéro )
    la chambre 405 : room 405 / le vol BA 235 : flight BA 235

    ( devant un adjectif ) ( singulier ) the … one / ( pluriel ) the … ones //
    je préfère le petit : I like the small one better /
    les rouges te vont mieux que les vertes : the red ones suit you better than the green ones

    'les' est employé parfois en français à la place d'un adjectif possessif anglais : elle marchait les mains dans les poches : she was walking with her hands in her pockets

    Emploi de DE, DU, DE LA, DES en français

    de, du, de la, des n'est pas traduit lorsqu'on parle de quelque chose en général
    au déjeuner, je bois du café au lait : for breakfast, I have white coffee
    les baleines sont des mammifères : whales are mammals

    Lorsque DE, DU, DE LA, DES expriment une certaine quantité de, un certain nombre de, ils correspondent en anglais à
    ( dans les phrases affirmatives et dans les phrases interrogatives qui expriment des propositions / offres polies) some
    ( après une négation / dans les autres phrases interrogatives ) any

    pas de : no / not any
    plus de : no ... left / not any ... left
     
  13. Benjy

    Benjy Senior Member

    Milton Keynes, UK
    English - English
    si t'as pompé tout ça dans un site web il vaux mieux mettre le lien.. sinon je te félicite de ton désire d'aider les autres :)

    extrait du réglement de wr:
    14. No web pages or copyrighted or plagiarized content may be inserted into WordReference posts. Minor fair use excerpts from dictionaries such as a definition/translation or two is permitted. Other quotes of less than one paragraph (4 sentences) are permitted as well. All other forms of inserted content from press releases, newsletters, web pages, or any other copyrighted content placed into messages will be removed without exception. A link to the content is acceptable and appropriate.
     
  14. Jean-Michel Carrère Senior Member

    French from France
    Ben, this was not 'pompé'. it is my own material, and as there is no copyright on it, anyone may copy it and use it, even learn it ! :)
     
  15. Benjy

    Benjy Senior Member

    Milton Keynes, UK
    English - English
    well then its all good :) like i said: if its not copied i'm really impressed by how much you wrote et j'en félicte ;)
     
  16. charlie2 Senior Member

    Thanks a lot. :) I found a previous thread on partitive articles. I propose to put it here. I hope it would help.
     
  17. fetchezlavache

    fetchezlavache Senior Member

    metz, france
    france

    wow... art thou a teacher of some sort ? bravo, très bien expliqué...

    here is another link with explanations in english.. http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa112299.htm
     

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