FR: Although X would - Bien que + mode (subjonctif / indicatif / conditionnel)

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by Daniel_Wilkins, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. Daniel_Wilkins New Member

    English-United Kingdom
    The name says it all really, is there a conditional subjunctive? And if not what would be the correct translation for 'although i would do...'

    Thanks in advance

    Moderator note:
    Multiple threads have been merged to create this one. See also this thread and this one on the Français Seulement forum.
    The discussion about the history of the conditional and whether it is a mood or tense has been moved to this thread in EHL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  2. Monsieur Hoole Senior Member

    Canada English

    Not really. There are only 3 subjonctif tenses: present, passe compose, and imparfait (mostly used in literary works).

    Depending on what you mean by although I would do... I would suggest:

    Bien que je fasse..... For a more accurate response you'd need to provide more context:)


    Hope this helps,

    M. H.
     
  3. Starcreator Senior Member

    Canada, English, French
    Canada, English
    What about a translation of:

    Although I wouldn't do what you're doing, I think it's the right decision for you.
    Bien que je ne ferais (fasse?) pas ce que tu fais, je pense que c'est la bonne décision pour toi.
     
  4. judkinsc

    judkinsc Senior Member

    Indiana
    English, USA
    I'd use the subjunctive there. Have to see what a native says.
     
  5. Starcreator Senior Member

    Canada, English, French
    Canada, English
    The subjunctive there then would mean, Although I'm not doing what you're doing, I think it's the right decision for you - which has a different meaning.
     
  6. Gil Senior Member

    Français, Canada
    "Je ne ferais pas ce que tu fais, mais je pense que c'est la bonne décision pour toi."
    Quand je peux éviter de me compliquer la vie avec les subjonctifs...:)
     
  7. anangelaway

    anangelaway Senior Member

    Toulouse
    French
    Oui, mais au cas où on doit se la compliquer un peu, que l'on ait pas le choix, on pourrait bien dire:
    ''Bien que j'agirais différemment (que toi), il me semble que c'est la bonne décision pour toi.'' ça va, non?
     
  8. sylber Senior Member

    bonjour, je ne sais pas vraiment pourquoi, je n'aime pas trop le conditionnel 'j'agirais' après 'bien que'. Me paraît bizarre, ou maladroit, je ne sais pas trop. Du coup, je choisirais la solution proposée par Gil. Après tout, si la traduction littérale n'est pas satisfaisante, il est normal d'opérer une re-construction de la phrase, non?
     
  9. Starcreator Senior Member

    Canada, English, French
    Canada, English
    […] Alors comment faire pour dire "bien qu'il serait là" ou quelque chose de similaire correctement?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  10. beri Senior Member

    Paris
    France
    C'est vrai que pour le coup, le français a une lacune. On ne peut en effet pas dire "je vais te laisser y aller par raison, bien que je préférerais que tu restes avec moi" et de nombreuses fois ce serait bien pratique! Mais on le dit quand même, avouons-le, même si c'est à tort ;)
     
  11. Conchúr Senior Member

    Ireland - Irish, English
    Bonjour à tous,

    Est-ce qu'on dirait...

    "bien que le lecteur pourrait penser que ...., il faut faire ressortir..."
    "bien que le lecteur puisse penser que ...., il faut faire ressortir..." ?

    Je sais bien qu'il faut le subjonctif après "bien que", mais je crois avoir également entendu bien que + conditionnel.

    Merci d'avance.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  12. Tabac Senior Member

    Pacific Northwest (USA)
    U. S. - English
    A francophone might be able to give a situation where the conditional is possible, but all my learning has told me that puisse is the form you need here.
     
  13. kirtsybee New Member

    English - UK
    hi,

    I'm confused as to whether to use the conditional or the subjuctive for the auxiliary in this phrase. It seems that I need to use both!

    Here is the phrase:

    'Mais bien que ces mesures auraient être/soient efficaces'

    I want to say 'But although these measures would be useful'

    What do you think?

    merci
     
  14. doinel

    doinel Modlife crisis

    Southern France
    France French
    Bien que + subjunctive!!!!
    Je dirais pour éviter le subjonctif imparfait( arrrgh) :
    Même si ces mesures s'avéraient efficaces.
     
  15. geostan

    geostan Senior Member

    English Canada
    Although it is unusual, the use of the conditional after bien que is possble.
    There is a difference between "are useful" and "would be useful."

    Bien que ces mesures seraient utiles,... would be the closest to your intention.

    Cheers!
     
  16. OrangeIV Junior Member

    English and German
    I want to to say: "Although it would be more difficult to...
    Attempted translation: "Bien qu'il serait plus difficile de..."

    Do you need a conditional form of the subjunctive after "Bien qu'il"?
     
  17. Petite-Belette

    Petite-Belette Senior Member

    Den Haag (The Netherlands)
    French - France
    It depends of the meaning:

    "Bien qu'il serait" => it would be

    "Bien qu'il soit" => it is (surely)
     
  18. Lacuzon

    Lacuzon Senior Member

    France
    French - France
    Hi,

    It depends on your sentence.

    In most of the cases it will be subjonctif like bien qu'il soit plus difficille

    ie: Vous ferez (indicatif) cela bien que ce soit plus compliqué
    (You will do that although that it be more diffucult) (does it sound good ?)

    But you could say

    Vous feriez (conditionnel) cela bien que cela serait plus compliqué
    You would do that although it would be more difficult
     
  19. A-class-act Senior Member

    Near to my luggage,and ready to travel.
    Arabic,and French"biracial boy"
    It depends of the meaning and your sentence.
     
  20. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    The use of the conditional after bien que belongs to a colloquial register, French grammar requires the systematic use of the subjunctive after bien que:

    TLFI:
    See also this link on the use of the subjunctive.

    See here for previous threads.

    [...]

    Moon Palace
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2009
  21. brizanapeas New Member

    English-American
    Salut! J'ai une autre question autour de ce sujet. Je voudrais dire, "Although she could have simply said..."

    Il me semble que la solution est de dire, "Bien qu'elle aurait pu dire simplement..."

    Cependant, j'ai l'impression qu'il faut utiliser le subjonctif ici? Dans ce cas, est-ce qu'on dirait, "Bien qu'elle ait pu?"

    Idées?

    Merci bien!
     
  22. mirifica Senior Member

    Les Lilas
    French
    Bonjour à tous,
    En suivant la règle de concordance des temps, on devrait dire : "bien qu'elle ëût pu... mais la tournure est devenue trop lourde trop littéraire, donc on utilise 'bien qu'elle ait pu'.
    On ne peut en aucun cas utiliser le conditionnel, ni le futur après bien que

    […]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  23. Lacuzon

    Lacuzon Senior Member

    France
    French - France
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  24. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    […] Après bien que, le conditionnel est possible et se trouve même sous la plume de bons auteurs, mais l'Académie n'y souscrit pas. […]
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  25. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    […] There is no clear-cut way to translate although + would/could using bien que:

    present/past subjunctive → Bien que je fasse… / Bien qu'elle ait pu dire… → Correct, but you lose the nuance of the conditional. As a matter of fact, it would also be the translation of Although I do / Although she could say, may have said, etc.
    present/past conditional → Bien que je ferais… / Bien qu'elle aurait pu dire… → Although the indicative (and conditional) was also common in classical French after bien que, it is now viewed as colloquial (or even as a mistake) by most linguists.
    pluperfect subjunctive → Bien qu'elle eût pu dire… → Both correct and keeping the conditional nuance, but literary. Moreover, it only works in the past.

    You can however always use même si as a workaround:

    Même si je ferais… / Même si elle aurait pu dire…
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  26. ~Chart71 New Member

    English - USA
    Hi all,
    So i'm writing a rédaction and I have to use the conditional twice and the subjunctive four times. I was trying to write a conditional phrase, here's the English.
    Although I will work in France, I hope that I will see many monuments and do interesting and amusing things. Here is the French I translated it into:

    Bien que je travaille en France, j'espère que je verrai beaucoup de monuments et je ferai choses d'amusants et intéressants

    After reading this thread, it seems that the subjunctive is right for conjugating travailler, but does this make it a subjunctive or conditional phrase? or both?

    thanks/merci :)
     
  27. Jpicot1 Junior Member

    Versailles
    français - France
    Hello.

    Your problem of translation concerning although I would do in french reveals perfectly the blanks that lets the non use of the imparfait du subjonctif.

    There is a tense to translate it which suits with the grammar and keeps perfectly the meaning. Unhappily it is a dead tense.

    But if you don't care about the mockeries, here is your sentence: Bien que je fisse...


    Concerning Chart71's problem, your sentence would be better translated by Même si je vais travailler en France, j'espère que je verrai beaucoup de monuments et que je ferai beaucoup de choses amusantes.

    Because yours means Athough I work in France.
    But if your purpose is just to use the subjunctive for your class. That's fine. But it doesn't mean exactly what you said.
     

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