FR: après/avant (de) + infinitif présent/passé

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by Lang21, May 21, 2012.

  1. Lang21 Junior Member

    USA
    English
    Quand est-il nécessaire à utiliser "de" après "avant" ou "après?"
     
  2. janpol

    janpol Senior Member

    France
    France - français
    avant / après + nom > je partirai après le repas
    avant de + verbe à l'infinitif > j'irai te voir avant de prendre la route
    après de ???
     
  3. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    [Après de] doesn't exist as a unit. This is different from avant, because [avant de] does exist as a unit.

    The word for "after" is simply après, and it may be followed by:
    - an infinitive or a past infinitive
    - a noun (which will naturally be introduced by some sort of determiner -- an article, a possessive, etc.)
    - que + a phrase containing a subject and conjugated verb.

    By comparison, the word for "before" is avant, and that it may be followed by:
    - de/d' + an infinitive or a past infinitive
    - a noun (which will naturally be introduced by some sort of determiner -- an article, a possessive, etc.)
    - que + a phrase containing a subject and conjugated verb in the subjunctive.


    It's possible to invent a phrase where the words après and de happen to appear next to each other (e.g., après de nombreuses années = after many years), but this de is not related to après in any way (in my example, it's an article introducing the noun années).
     
  4. Lang21 Junior Member

    USA
    English
    Merci beacoup! Je comprends maintenant :)
     
  5. desmontagnesvertes

    desmontagnesvertes Senior Member

    New Jersey
    English - USA
    […] May I conclude then that "I will practice my piano after I finish my homework." is best said as "Je travaillerai mon piano, après finir mes devoirs.". C'est correct ?

    Merci d'avance.

    Moderator note: This question was split from this thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  6. geostan

    geostan Senior Member

    English Canada
    après avoir fini mes devoirs
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  7. desmontagnesvertes

    desmontagnesvertes Senior Member

    New Jersey
    English - USA
    Thank you geostan, but isn't that the past infinitive ? After reading jann's reply I thought I was to simply use the infinitive ?
     
  8. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Hullo, des.

    Indeed jann wrote: "you should use the infinitive construction (après avoir + p.p.is the "past infinitive")".

    GS
     
  9. Oddmania

    Oddmania Senior Member

    France
    French
    Hi,

    Keep in mind that après + present infinitive is impossible (besides après manger, which is the only exception I can think of). On the other hand, avant de + present infinitive is perfectly possible (so is avant de + past infinitive, which basically means the same thing...)
     
  10. geostan

    geostan Senior Member

    English Canada
    Also, après déjeuner, dîner, souper, boire.
    But are they in competition with après avoir déjeuné, dîné, soupé, bu.?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  11. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Note that in après manger/boire/etc., the infinitive could be considered a noun, as in le manger, le boire, etc.

    Anyway, the construction with the present infinitive is possible only with those select few verbs. I'd say it is as frequent as the standard construction with past infinitive—except après boire which sounds weird nowadays.

    The use of a present infinitive after après is however common in gradations or hierarchies where après has no temporal meaning, as in: Après danser, ce que je préfère, c'est chanter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  12. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Hullo, Odd.
    So I imagine I would be wrong if I said " Avant Ø avoir visité le Louvre, on a passé l'après-midi dans le jardin du Palais Royal". ?

    All the best.

    GS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  13. Oddmania

    Oddmania Senior Member

    France
    French
    Je n'avais pas pensé à Après danser. Vous devez avoir raison! Par contre, je n'avais jamais entendu après boire avant, c'est n'est pas le genre de chose que je dirais.

    Yes, you need the preposition de with avant :)

    Avant de faire,
    Avant d'avoir fait,
    Après Ø avoir fait.
     
  14. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Ni moi non plus, je te rassure ! (J'ai édité mon message précédent pour clarifier ce point.)
     
  15. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Merci, Odd.

    GS
     
  16. Hurlevent Senior Member

    French
    "Après boire" still exists, I heard it sometimes, and you can find some examples on Google, like this one.
     
  17. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Personne ne dit le contraire. Toutefois, je ne connais personne qui l'utilise dans la vie de tous les jours, contrairement à après manger, etc.
    Cet exemple est différent : il s'agit d'un emploi substantivé.
     

Share This Page