FR: beaucoup (de X) + accord singulier / pluriel

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by univerio, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. univerio Senior Member

    Vancouver, Cancada
    Mandarin Chinese, China
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  2. SerinusCanaria3075

    SerinusCanaria3075 Senior Member

    United States
    México, D.F. (Spanish)
    Gens is plural, so I assume it needs a plural form:

    Il y a beaucoup de monde [singular].
    Beaucoup de gens habitent ici [plural].


    Right natives?
     
  3. Homosum Senior Member

    France, Français
    Hello !
    It is quite easy : if the noun is countable > plural
    if uncountable > singular.

    Ex :
    > Beaucoup de farine est nécessaire pour faire du pain.
    > Beaucoup d'oeufs sont nécessaires pour faire un gateau.

    > Beaucoup de monde habite ici.
    > Beaucoup de gens habitent ici.

    :)
     
  4. nettothenetizen Senior Member

    English
    Hi! "Beaucoup de" is followed by "sont", right? not "est"?

    E.g. Beaucoup de choses sont jolies.

    Thanks!
     
  5. sarah82 Senior Member

    Annecy, France
    French-France
    Yes you're right it is plural "beaucoup de choses sont jolies"/"beaucoup de gens sont venus"...
     
  6. zelda17 Senior Member

    france french
    Cela dépend du mot que tu mets derrière:
    "beaucoup d'étudiants sont satisfaits" --> 'étudiants' est un nom dénombrable, au pluriel, donc le verbe est au pluriel.

    Mais:

    "beaucoup de sucre a été renversé" --> 'sucre' est indénombrable, donc verbe au singulier.

    Voilà! =)
     
  7. Fred_C

    Fred_C Senior Member

    France
    Français
    Oui, ou si vous préférez :
    "Beaucoup de" peut vouloir dire "many", et dans ce cas, c'est pluriel,
    Mais cela peut aussi vouloir dire "much", et dans ce cas, c'est singulier.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  8. nettothenetizen Senior Member

    English
    Hi!

    Is it "beaucoup d’autres cherchaient en France un lieu d’expression privilégié" or "beaucoup d’autres cherchait en France un lieu d’expression privilégié"? It should be cherchaient, right?

    Thanks!
     
  9. madolo Senior Member

    yes, cherchaient
     
  10. Léa123

    Léa123 Senior Member

    France
    French - France
    Yes, since the subject, beaucoup d'autres, is plural :)
     
  11. cougargirl07 Junior Member

    English
    Bonjour!
    My students and I were discussing negative expressions. My original statement was
    Beaucoup de choses se sont passées au château de Gorre.

    The students were to make it negative using rien ne...

    My question, and theirs, was whether my original sentence was correct in being plural? Or would the singular be correct as
    Beaucoup de choses s'est passé....

    Merci beaucoup!
     
  12. snarkhunter

    snarkhunter Senior Member

    France, Région parisienne
    French - France
    This is definitely a case of plural, as implied by "beaucoup".
    Therefore, "Beaucoup de choses se sont passées au château de Gorre." is absolutely correct. The actual subject of the sentence is "choses", not "beaucoup" (which only confirms the number).

    And so is the opposite, "Rien ne s'est passé", which must be in the singular : this is still correct.

    Some examples :
    "Beaucoup sont venus."
    "Peu sont venus."
    "Personne n'est venu."
     
  13. cougargirl07 Junior Member

    English
    Fantastique!
    I have spent so long teaching at the high school lower-level that sometimes I know that it looks right but I no longer remember how it's right!
    Merci!
     
  14. caveatipse Senior Member

    French Louisiana. Vive la Louisiane française!
    Standard French, Cajun French, and US English
    beaucoup de + nom s'exige un verbe au singulier ou pluriel? Merci

    Beaucoup de bruit manifestait, ou Beaucoup de bruit manifestaient?
     
  15. arundhati Senior Member

    France
    French - France
    S'il s'agit de "beaucoup de bruits" (de nombreux bruits) => manifestaient
    S'il s'agit de "beaucoup de bruit" (un bruit très fort) => manifestait (c'est "un" bruit).
     
  16. GerardM

    GerardM Senior Member

    Paris, France
    French
    Hi caveatipse,

    In English, there are many uncountable words (eg no plural for water).

    In French, we have far less but we've some of them.
    Some of our words (depending of the context) can be countable or uncountable. That's the case for bruit.

    So as arundhati wrote it, depending on the context, we have a singular or a plural.

    ~~ edit
    Here English is similar to French.
    You can say that there is much noise (singular) or that you can hear/there are many different noises (plural).
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  17. Jeanne75 Senior Member

    French - France
    Hello,

    I am just trying to "slice" the various strata in that question because it's puzzling me.

    […]

    But here it is "beaucoup de". For me "beaucoup" needs plural. Beaucoup de gens vivent. Beaucoup vivent etc...

    Now let's come to "beaucoup d'entre nous". Actually I would say "vivent", whatever comes after "beaucoup" - but maybe it is just because I am old-fashioned and continue to say "la plupart vit"!!

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  18. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
  19. Jeanne75 Senior Member

    French - France
    Hello Maître Capello,

    You are always very helpful and I saw that you removed part of my previous post.

    Sorry to insist - you will correct me anyway if this does not make sense to you.

    My question was - sorry If I haven't been more explicit (and sorry for raising again this "off-topic" question but this is really puzzling me)

    I know that there have been changes in the rules for the agreement of the verb for "la plupart de / la majorité de" (agreement with the compelement of the noun now allowed, from singular to plural) - off-topic, sorry again

    Have, to your knowledge, similar changes in the rules been agreed for "beaucoup de" (agreement with the compelement of "beaucoup de" now allowed, which would make the "vivons" acceptable) ?

    Thanks again - and renewed apologies for insisting,

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  20. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    Because beaucoup is originally an adverb and not a noun—as opposed to la plupart and la majorité—, in the phrase beaucoup de X, it can only be considered a determiner, which doesn't call for an agreement—only the noun X does.

    There is therefore absolutely no reason (and never was) to use a singular if the noun is plural. The agreement just follows the noun:

    beaucoup d'entre nous = beaucoup de gens parmi nous → pluriel
    beaucoup de gens → pluriel
    beaucoup d'eau → singulier
    beaucoup de bruit
    → singulier
    beaucoup de bruits → pluriel
     
  21. Jeanne75 Senior Member

    French - France
    Many thanks for your precious help - as usual! ...
     
  22. thalaivi Senior Member

    India
    Tamil
    Bonsoir à tous,

    J'ai essayé de faire une phrase avec beaucoup de et c'est

    "Beaucoup de verbes en ir ont la même terminaison."

    Mais Microsoft Word souligne le mot ont et le remplace par a.

    D'abord est-ce que ma phrase est correct? Sinon comment on peut dire "Lots of ir verbes have the same ending"

    Désolé il n'y a pas vraiment le contexte ici. Je juste veux écrire cette règle de conjugaison

    Merci
    Vidya
     
  23. Micia93

    Micia93 Senior Member

    in the center of France
    FRANCE FRENCH
    If you read the whole thread, you will find the answer!
    anyway, you should say "ont" here (agreeing with "verbes") and not "a", "beaucoup" is just here to determinate a vague number, but the actual subject is "verbes"
     
  24. thalaivi Senior Member

    India
    Tamil
    Thank you micia93,

    I did read the whole thread but got confused when word said it was an error.. :)

    Regards
    Vidya
     
  25. Matcauthon

    Matcauthon Senior Member

    English Canada
    Salut,

    Mon amie m'a envoyé le texto suivant:

    Par instincte je veux la corriger à 'beaucoup de devoir', mais je suis pas certain. Entre cet fil de discussion-ci et ce que j'ai trouvé ici, je pense que j'ai tort et qu'elle a raison. Néanmoins, j'hésite. Y-a-t-il quelquechose que je manque?
     
  26. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    I'm afraid neither of you quite have it right. :)

    Your friend is correct to use devoirs plural. The plural conveys the idea of homework in general, and certainly the only choice if you have more than one homework assignment. But you are correct that it should be beaucoup de_ without an -s on the end. Put it together and you'll have the correct version: j'avais beaucoup de devoirs.
     
  27. Matcauthon

    Matcauthon Senior Member

    English Canada
    thanks!
     

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