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FR: this, these - adjective / pronoun

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by Petrie787, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. Petrie787 Senior Member

    English, United States
    In French, are demonstrative pronouns as adjectives the same ones that are used as nouns?

    For example..

    "Ce, cet, ou cette" used as "this," or "ces" as "these" i know can be used as adjectives like "Ces films sont intéressants" or "Ce livre est intéressant" but can you also say "Ces sont intéressants." or "Ce est intéressant"?

    Also "ça" is "that" and "ceux" is "those" but can you say both "ça livre est intéressant" AND "ça est intéressant."?

    Long question, thank you!
     
  2. CARNESECCHI Senior Member

    Auvergne
    French / France
    Hello,
    We would use :
    This : "Ce livre (ci) est intéressant" -> "Celui-ci est intéressant"
    "Cette nouvelle (ci) est intéressante" -> "Celle-ci est intéressant"
    That : "Ce livre (là) est intéressant" -> "Celui-là est intéressant"
    "Cette nouvelle (là) est intéressante" -> "Celle-là est intéressant"
    These : "Ces livres (ci) sont intéressants" -> "Ceux-ci sont intéressants"
    "Ces nouvelles (ci) sont intéressantes" -> "Celles-ci sont intéressantes"
    Those : "Ces livres (là) sont intéressants" -> "Ceux-là sont intéressants"
    "Ces nouvelles (là) sont intéressantes" -> "Celles-là sont intéressantes"

    And generally "It's interesting" = "C'est intéressant" (ça is shortened in c' because of the two vowels "e" just after "a")

    I hope that I made no mistyping and that it helps!
     
  3. Petrie787 Senior Member

    English, United States
    thank you that was perfect ;)
     
  4. johnkeyoneab2 Junior Member

    Shanghai
    Chinese
    Hello,everyone,I have this question for you:

    In English,you say This is a book.These are books,but in French,you say C'est un livre.Ce sont des livres.

    So Is Ce used for both this and these in French?

    Thank you very much.
     
  5. Gil Senior Member

    Français, Canada
    Oui, mais on dit aussi "Ces livres sont à moi".
    Dans ce cas là, "ces" n'est pas un pronom.
     
  6. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    In short, when "this" is an adjective:

    This book is interesting → Ce livre est intéressant
    These books are interesting → Ces livres sont intéressants
    This show is interesting → Cette émission est intéressante
    These shows are interesting → Ces émissions sont intéressantes

    When it is a pronoun:

    This/It is a book → C'est un livre
    These/They are books → Ce sont des livres
    This/It is a show → C'est une émission
    These/They are shows → Ce sont des émissions
     
  7. armasus New Member

    Swedish
    Ce is generally not translated with "this" or "these", but with "it". "C'est un livre" would be translated as "It is a book". It is more common to translate "this" and "that" by ceci and cela, respectively.

    As for "C'est un livre" vs. "Ce sont des livres", I believe it is originally an "italianism" dating from the 18th century that now is only used in the very formal language. "C'est des livres" is what is the most common.
     
  8. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    I disagree with both comments.
    First, it is all a matter of context. In a few contexts, ceci/cela may definitely be used, but in French we use ceci and cela much less frequently than "this" and "that" in English—we usually use ce or ça instead.
    C'est des livres is colloquial and should never be used in writing (except in dialogues), while Ce sont des livres is the standard, non-colloquial form; it is definitely not "very formal." Anyway, this is off-topic and has been discussed in the thread FR: c'est / ce sont + pluriel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  9. Fred_C

    Fred_C Senior Member

    France
    Français
    Hi,
    This question does not mean anything, I am afraid.
    A pronoun can never be used as an adjective. Ce, Cette, Cet, Ces are used as adjectives, because they are demonstrative adjectives. (not demonstrative pronouns)
    Celui-ci, celle-ci and the other ones are demonstrative pronouns.

    Sometimes, a word is both a pronoun and an adjective, like «tout, toute, tous», and your question could have been «are "ce, cette, ces" both demonstrative adjectives and demonstrative pronouns ?» The answer is no. They are demonstrative adjectives.
     

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