fuori dalla graziadidio

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by theartichoke, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    Hello all,

    Still with Ammaniti's "L'Ultimo Capodanno" here. Ossadipesce wants to sniff solvent so he can hallucinate. He wants Cristiano to sniff it with him. But Cristiano is stretched out comfortably smoking the umpteenth joint of the evening and isn't interested in the solvent. Ossadipesce says "Questa roba non sai dove ti manda," and the next line is "Grazie, io ho già dato. Sto fuori dalla graziadidio con quest' ultima tromba" disse Cristiano con un fare saggio e rilassato.

    Google tells me that "fuori dalla graziadidio" means "furioso, arrabbiato" etc., which doesn't seem to fit the context at all. Cristiano is rilassato, thoroughly stoned, and not angry. Is he using it ironically, or could it mean something else?

    My guess at a translation, which I think is fudging the problematic phrase: "Thanks, I've done enough. I'm already over the edge with this last joint," said Cristiano, looking sage and relaxed.
    (I'm not entirely sure, either, that "con un fare" refers to how he looks. Acting sage and relaxed would seem to be a good option, except that it implies he's putting it on, which I don't get from "con un fare.")

    Thanks for any advice!
     
  2. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    "Essere fuori dalla grazia di Dio" in effetti vuol dire (Treccani) "essere fuori di sé, in stato di estrema irritazione". Qui direi che è usato con il valore di sballare (in seguito all'assunzione di droghe). :);)

     
  3. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    Thanks, Necsus. In the original, do you perceive any kind of comic contrast between someone saying he's "fuori dalla graziadidio" (an expression usually associated with being "fuori di sé" in anger) when he's in fact extremely "rilassato" because he's stoned out of his mind?

    In English, I have the choice of something like "I'm stoned out of my mind with this last joint" (no contrast with seeming "sage and relaxed") or "This last joint has totally fucked :warn: me up," which is a bit funnier coming from someone who's all "sage and relaxed." (It may be significant that Cristiano earlier in the story was refusing to smoke weed because he claimed it gave him anxiety attacks. Also, Cristiano and Ossadipesce swear a fair bit, as you can imagine, so the more vulgar translation wouldn't be out of character.)
     
  4. Lorena1970

    Lorena1970 Senior Member

    Italy, Italiano
    Again, having read the novel, this one sounds as the best one to my ears.
     
  5. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    But surely the Italian isn't nearly as vulgar as that, Lo.:)
     
  6. Lorena1970

    Lorena1970 Senior Member

    Italy, Italiano
    Right, the Italian isn't that vulgar, but is that expression (which I think - and may be wrong- is standard youth jargon) so vulgar re standard English? Having read the novel (and more by Ammanniti) and remembering the situation, I honestly imagine that charachter saying that if he was speaking in English. Differently, if it sounds too vulgar, then "I'm stoned out of my mind with this last joint" may fit the bill as well, even if it doesn't have the same nouance. Maybe some native know a different idiom to suggest here...?
     
  7. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    As far as I'm concerned any expression with f**k in it is vulgar.;), although admittedly the younger generation use it a little more freely than we do.:)

    I prefer the "stoned" option, personally.:) Or maybe even "I'm already as high as a kite......" or something like that. Colloquial, but not vulgar.:)
     
  8. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    I feel I'm a bit hampered here by not having been a pot-head in the mid-90s, when this novel is set (nor now, I should add!).:D I kind of doubt these guys would have said "high as a kite," which sounds like something my mom would say.:) Their dialogue is has plenty of full-on Italian parolacce, so I'm using the f-word freely as it is.

    The nuance I'm wondering about is whether Cristiano's implying that he's had too much (as you no doubt remember, Lorena, he's much more cautious than that nutbar Ossadipesce). To my ears, "this last joint has totally fucked:warn: me up" implies that Cristiano is beyond "stoned out of his mind" and is saying he's starting to feel bad rather than good.

    And I'm still curious as to whether the original phrase, which is usually used to mean out of your head with anger or irritation, sounds ironic or comic coming from someone who's out of his head with pot-induced relaxation.
     
  9. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    You're right about high as a kite. I wouldn't use it any more either.:)

    As you say, you can use the f-word it freely if you're translating swearwords. It's far too strong here: you need something vaguely amusing, not vulgar (my opinion, of course;))
     
  10. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    The way these kids talk , I am not sure that the f-word retains its original vulgar meaning.

    I think " Bro, I'm totally wasted already " and " Bro, I'm totally f'd up already " would be perfect synonyms.
     
  11. Lorena1970

    Lorena1970 Senior Member

    Italy, Italiano
    I agree with Ody. BTW: doesn't this one imply the f-word...?;)
     
  12. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    I just went back into my translation to decide which to use, and noticed I've got Ossadipesce in the very next line saying "If you can't get fucked up:warn: on new year's eve, when can you get fucked up:warn:?" (translating "se non ci si sballa..."). So Cristiano shall say he's stoned out of his mind on the joint, and Ossadipesce shall urge him to have a go at the solvent too, and get well and truly f-ed up.:D

    Thanks, everyone!
     
  13. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    I beg to differ.;) The fact that the younger generation use f**k more now doesn't make it less vulgar.

    But I do like "I'm totally wasted".:)
     

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