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Good morning!

Discussion in 'Polski (Polish)' started by Encolpius, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    Hello, I've just realized that unlike all Slavic languages you do not use the word ranek, rano in greeting. Wasn't there ever a similar greeting in older Polish or isn't there any regional alternative of the dzień dobry with the word morning? Thanks.
     
  2. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Hello Encolpius,
    It's an interesting observation, but no, we don't use any greeting with the word for morning. Usually we simply say 'dzień dobry' in the morning. We didn't use it in the past either as far as I know. I'll look around though and let you know if I find something.

    EDIT: Polish is more similar to Romance languages in this respect:
    English: Good morning
    German: Guten Morgen
    Spanish: Buenos días
    French: Bonjour
    Portuguese: Bom dia
    I'm wondering if there was a direct equivalent of 'good morning' in Latin.

    On the other hand, English for instance doesn't use the equivalent of our 'dzień dobry' (unless you're in Australia or New Zealand where it's often contracted to G'day.), but German does 'Guten Tag'. English seems to be more happy with 'good morning', 'good afternoon', 'good night' than with 'good day'.

    Is it more usual to use 'good morning' or 'good day' in other Slavic languages if you want to greet someone in the morning?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  3. ymar Junior Member

    Polish
    South Slavic languages have "dobro jutro" for "good morning". It doesn't exist in Polish, but I don't know whether it used to exist in the past or not.
     
  4. PawelBierut Senior Member

    Polish - Poland
    As far as I know Spanish buenos días is used before noon, so it should be an equivalent of English good morning. After 12.00 usually you can hear buenas tardes. It is different from Polish dobry wieczór, that I use when it gets dark or at night, and of course, you can say dzień dobry after noon when it is still bright outside. So there is a slight difference between Polish: dzień dobry/dobry wieczór and Spanish buenos días/buenas tardes.

    More or less literal translation of English good morning can be something like: miłego ranka (have a nice morning), but of course you can always use it the night before, just to wish someone nice next morning.
    Edit: I wouldn't, of course, use Miłego ranka as a greeting... it would be more appropiate when saying goodbye.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  5. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    Thank you, that answer is enough. ;)
     
  6. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Yes, that is true. However, I was thinking specifically about the expression in question 'good morning' and about the period of the day when it is used. In this respect I think it's correct to say that the Polish expression 'dzień dobry' and the Spanish 'buenos días' are the same. Sorry, if I wasn't clear.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  7. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    There is a trace of this in Polish.
    'Jutrzenka' is the name of the morning star or dawn.
    'Jutrzenkowy' and 'jutrzenny' can mean of or pertaining to morning.
    'Jutrznia' means matins, a mass celebrated in the morning.
    It is interesting that Russian uses 'dobroye utra' to mean 'good morning', but 'zawtra' to mean 'tomorrow' (cf. tomorrow morning 'zawtra utram'), but maybe it's just Polish that's actually different in this respect from other Slavic languages.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  8. BezierCurve Senior Member

    I'd risk a theory that "zawtra" comes from "za-utra" (the day after the one started with this "utra").
     
  9. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    And this is "Ponglish" introduced in Poland by foreign managers of large retail stores. The shop assistants have been instructed to say so.
     
  10. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Looks credible:
    At the same page, I found 'zajutrek', which I don't see in modern dictionaries of Polish, I found it in Linde (today we still have its somewhat literary derivative 'nazajutrz').
     
  11. polish.language New Member

    Polish
    There is only one phrase "dzień dobry", impossible to day "poranek dobry" or something like this, but there is "good evening" = dobry wieczór.
     
  12. BezierCurve Senior Member

    Well, you can always go for the lovely "miłego poranka", if you really want to.
     
  13. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Never in my entire and somewhat short life have I ever heard anyone say 'Miłego poranka', even coming from the shop assitants. I advise you against saying so, unless you want to sound overly affectionate and un-Polish.
     
  14. wolfbm1 Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    This afternoon, I heard "Dobrego popołudnia" on the radio. I could expect to hear tomorrow morning "Dobrego rana", "Dobrego poranka", "Miłego poranka" or "Dzień dobry. Miłego poranka." Why not? It sounds nice, doesn't it?
     
  15. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I for one much prefer the old good 'Miłego dnia'. :)
     
  16. BezierCurve Senior Member

    And what makes you think it's not a calque?
     
  17. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    What are you referring to? :confused:
     
  18. BezierCurve Senior Member

    To the abovementioned un-Polishness of "miłego poranka".
     
  19. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    The mere fact that I have never heard anyone say 'Miłego poranka' is good enough reason for me to write it off as un-Polish, which can't be said for 'Miłego dnia', since I tend to hear it a couples of times a day, everyday. :) Others may differ.
     
  20. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    But this is a direct translation of "have a nice day", introduced in Polish retail stores by multinational companies after 1990. The shop assistants were instructed to say it to leaving customers. Never used in Poland before as a greeting.
     
  21. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Even so, the usage extends further than that and 'Miłego dnia' is now used used as a greeting by regular people, not only those employed in retail stores owned by multinational companies.
     
  22. BezierCurve Senior Member

    Hail to the shop assistants, the avant-garde of the evolution of the contemporary Polish.
     
  23. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    :thumbsup: :D
     
  24. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    I think that 'miłego ranka' or 'miłego poranka' are rather infrequent; I, for one, have never heard them, and it will be a while before they make it into the mainstream Polish (if ever). We use the new 'miłego weekendu', 'miłego dnia', 'miłego popołudnia', 'miłego/udanego wieczoru' and the more established 'dobrej nocy' (cf. 'dobranoc') with relative frequency. However, 'dobrego poranka' must be limited to a certain jargon and it simply jars on my ears for this reason. Is it good to use expressions of this type? Since language constantly evolves, there will be constant changes in it. Some of them will catch on, some not -- this is rather time-dependent. However, if something has come to be used by the majority of Poles, including, various social strata (e.g. street sweepers, shop assistants, primary school teachers, university professors), we can't simply jettison it from the Polish repertoire. I don't think 'miłego (po)ranka' falls into this category, but I believe the other expressions I mentioned do. Of course, it must be borne in mind that they should be used appropriately to the situation.

    PS: In shopping centres, I've recently been observing the use of a brand-new word for promotion, namely 'akcja'. I have never dared to use it myself, though. Anyone game for it?
     
  25. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    The main issue I see with 'miłego poranka' is that it makes little if any sense to say so. If you see a person early in the day why not simply say 'Have a nice day', as opposed to wishing only a nice morning? It's as though you'd like your speaker to have a nice morning, and morning alone... to hell with the remainder of the day. There is no logic behind 'Miłego poranka' in Polish. What a daft thing to say!

    Thomas, I haven't seen 'akcja' in the sense of 'promotion', but it's even more daft than 'Miłego ranka/poranka'! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  26. kknd Senior Member

    Polska / Poland
    polski / Polish
    i use quite frequently miłego dnia, so i don't see much problem with miłego ranka (btw. miłego poranka is little bit less natural for me than miłego ranka, probably due to it's length… :p); i haven't run into such use of akcja yet… :confused:
     
  27. tengounaduda New Member

    España
    polski
    well, i find your advice difficult to follow. Actually, I use the phrase ¨milego poranka¨ very frequently in SMS to my dear Polish wife, she has nevered complained about me being un-Polish in my messages.
     
  28. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Be it as it may, I and people I know of have never heard 'miłego poranka'. That it is used by some people comes as no surprise to me, though, bearing in mind how many people there are using Polish. :) There's one thing I don't quite understand. Why not wish someone a nice day, as opposed to wishing a person only a nice morning? That's the point I brought in up in my earlier post.
     
  29. Szkot Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    UK English
    Functionally 'Good morning/afternoon/evening' in English is usually a greeting on meeting, not a farewell wish on parting. It is quite logical to use the relevant part of the day.
     
  30. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Granted, but we were speaking of 'Miłego poranka' / 'Miłego dnia', which are different from standard greetings such as 'Dzień dobry' or 'Dobry wieczór'. I don't think the same logic applies, at least it does not to me. If anything, I'd wish a person 'miłego dnia', and I stand by my opinion that 'Miłego poranka' sounds off. Others may differ, and as shown by tengouanaduda' post, some do.
     
  31. ChipMacShmon

    ChipMacShmon Senior Member

    j. polski
    I can imagine a situation when someone wishes 'miłego poranka' and not 'miłego dnia' if he knows that they will meet again later that day (in the afternoon).
     
  32. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    In the situation given, I'd still use 'miłego dnia'. This might very well be my peculiarity, but I don't like 'miłego poranka' and that's it.
     

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