grazie per avermi detto che sono dolcissima

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by ron56, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. ron56 Junior Member

    U.S.A. English
    Ciao:) I got this messge from an Italian friend and I'm wondering if someone could kindly translate it in English. thanks a million in advance:)WE CIAO grazie per avermi detto che sono dolcissima!! Anche tu lo sei ...Che bello da noi in italia non si va a scuola per quattro giorni perchè è festa! DA te??
     
  2. TimLA

    TimLA Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    English - US
    CIAO grazie per avermi detto che sono dolcissima!!
    HELLO thanks for having told me (telling me) that I am the sweetest!!

    Anche tu lo sei
    You are also (the sweetest)

    Che bello da noi in italia non si va a scuola per quattro giorni perchè è festa!
    How beautiful it is for us in Italy to not go to school for four days because of holidays.

    DA te??
    How about you??
     
  3. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    A question for you Tim (and for everyone else of course):
    Whenever I find a past infinite in Italian (avermi detto) I'm always tempted to translate it literally, that is "having told me", however I've noticed that most of the times English speakers say "telling me" for both "avermi detto" and "dirmi".
    What's the difference?
    I suppose they both work, since you suggested both the translations.
     
  4. Stephen16 Junior Member

    England
    England - English
    'Having told me' would actually be better English.

    We use both when talking about an event in the past.

    However they are not interchangeable and so 'having told me' isn't used in the present tense, i.e. "You're telling me that I'm the best Italian speaker in the world?" is correct, "You're having told me that I'm the best Italian speaker in the world?" is not used. I just thought I should add that for further clarification.

    For further clarification, in some situations when using 'telling me', talking about a past event, 'after' is placed infront of 'telling me' - "After telling me about his problems, I felt as though I should be grateful for what I have".

    I feel as though I've forgotten something but I've gone into a lot of detail there, hope it helps unless someone has posted before me!

    Stephen.
     
  5. ngmuipai Junior Member

    NYC
    USA, English
    To add the viewpoint of a somewhat older grammarian: "Telling me" actually works better in the original sentence -- "Thanks for telling me" -- than in Stephen's example, for two reasons. First, the second half of the sentence has the past tense "I felt," which requires that the first verb establish a previous time. But, "After having told me...I felt..." is also problematic because there's a change of subject that is unspecified. To be absolutely correct, one would say, "After his having told me about his problems, I felt..." Even when the gerund functions as a verb, we treat it as a noun and use the posessive pronoun.

    Stephen's usage is no doubt acceptable in today's English, but I'm reluctant to co-operate with the abandonment of grammar.
     
  6. Stephen16 Junior Member

    England
    England - English
    I'd agree with the insertion of 'his' into that sentence, it would be better English than the original.

    Stephen.
     
  7. TimLA

    TimLA Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    English - US
    It's funny, someone just PM'ed me on the same issue.

    In "simple" translations like this (perhaps not so:)) I'm always torn between just doing the "most correct" translation versus a translation that might be less than perfect, yet "teaches" something. So often, I'll translate something a bit more "literal" than I should, just to demonstrate something in the sentence (or because I forget to make it "non-literal":eek::)) This also speaks to the issue of "levels of translation" that I've mentioned here before.

    This sentence might work well in that regard.

    Grazie___per__avermi____detto__che__sono__dolcissima
    Thanks__for___have me__said___that__I am__sweetest
    (this is what I call "first order translation" - a computer could do it)

    Grazie___per__avermi____detto_______che__sono__dolcissima
    Thanks__for___have_____said_ to me__that__I am__the sweetest
    (this is what I call "second order translation" - understandable)

    Grazie___per__avermi____detto_______che__sono__dolcissima
    Thanks for telling me that I'm the sweetest.
    Thanks for saying to me that I'm the sweetest.
    Thanks for having told me that I'm the sweetest.
    (this is what I call "third order translation" - fluent)

    Grazie___per__avermi____detto_______che__sono__dolcissima
    Thanks for the kind words, and for calling me sweet.
    Thanks so much for calling me sweetest.
    and on and on
    (this is what I call "fourth order translation" - poetic)

    I've developed these "orders" in my own little twisted mind to help me understand differences in many of Italian sentences I read here.
    (They are not based on any other system I've seen, just my experience here on WR).

    With respect to your specific question, I think there is a difference (to me) between these two:

    Thanks for having told me that I am the sweetest.
    Thanks for telling me that I am the sweetest.

    The first could mean that the "telling" occurred at any time in the past, but my first guess would be that it occurred in the distant past.

    The second also implies that the "telling" occurred in the past, but my "sense" is that it is in the recent past.

    Let's see what others say....
     
  8. Stephen16 Junior Member

    England
    England - English
    I like your "order" system!
    The poetic order could lead to a misunderstanding though, could it not?

    Stephen.
     
  9. ngmuipai Junior Member

    NYC
    USA, English
    I'd agree, and go one step further: "Thanks for having told me I'm the sweetest" sounds like a rejection is coming; "Thanks for telling me..." sounds like the compliment, and maybe the advance, is being accepted...
     
  10. TimLA

    TimLA Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    English - US
    VERY interesting idea! And clearly it might!
    There are many sentences that I read in Italian that I don't have a clue as to what they mean.
    Then I'll ask the writer if they can say it another way, and I understand it perfectly.

    I suppose the best example I can think of regarding my use of "poetic" is Dante.
    I have three translations of the Divine Comedy at home, and if you look at the web there are probably close to 100.
    Each one is subtely different, yet each one is "fluent" and reflects the meaning of the original text.

    Good thought!
     
  11. Stephen16 Junior Member

    England
    England - English
    True. The Bible and it's many many translations would also be a good example of this.

    Anyway, I hate to take a thread away from it's original purpose!
     
  12. ron56 Junior Member

    U.S.A. English
    Thanks to everyone:) You've been so helpful and so informative:)
     

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