Having said that

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by Lola Lola, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Lola Lola Senior Member

    English, UK
    Is 'nichtsdestoweniger' an apt translation of 'having said that'?

    And can it be used as an opening to a paragraph, such as:

    Nichtsdestoweniger ist die Jugendkriminalität nicht im Zunehmen...
     
  2. Derselbe Senior Member

    Deutsch, German, ドイツ語
    Please give us more context. Especially the preceding sentence.
     
  3. Sowka

    Sowka Forera und Moderatorin

    Hannover
    German, Northern Germany
    Hallo Lola Lola :)

    Ich denke, es kommt sehr darauf an, in welcher Beziehung genau das im vorherigen Satz Gesagte zu dem aktuellen Satz steht.

    Im Moment kann ich mir keinen Zusammenhang denken, in dem "nichtsdestoweniger" ein guter Satzanfang wäre. Normalerweise würde ich wohl sagen "andererseits" oder auch "dennoch".

    Was wird denn in Deinem vorherigen Satz gesagt?

    (Auch wenn man es an den Minuten nicht erkennen kann :rolleyes: ;): Mein Beitrag überschneidet sich mit Derselbes.)
     
  4. Lola Lola Senior Member

    English, UK
    It's difficult to provide more context since the new paragraph that I wanted to open with the phrase 'having said that' follows a couple of paragraphs about youth crime and how it could be tackled.
    I guess I'm trying to write a German essay in a typically English essay-writing style!
     
  5. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    In most contexts, "nichtsdestoweniger" means "nevertheless", an almost literal translation.
     
  6. Lola Lola Senior Member

    English, UK
    So is there a way of saying "having said that" which is closer to the English meaning?
     
  7. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    You mean you've been making very general or categorical statements and you want to relativize it and look for an introductory phrase? I am afraid there isn't a general phrase matching "having said this". As Derselbe and Sowka wrote, we'd have to take a concrete sentence.
     
  8. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Having said that, or what I prefer, That having been said, is used to introduce a counterargument or opposing viewpoint, or to reveal an error/loophole/drawback of the previous line of thinking, or in general, to present the other side of an issue.

    For example, I might talk for 20 minutes about how wonderful and environment-friendly public transportation is. Then I might follow that up with:

    That having been said, driving your own car is usually faster, so people continue to do it.

    or

    That having been said, even city buses contribute their share of pollution.

    or

    That having been said, it would be even better if more people simply rode bicycles.

    I imagine that in Lola lola's case, a couple paragraphs were spent talking about a particular way (or ways) to tackle youth crime, but now they want to address the drawbacks and realistic possibility of that proposal.
     
  9. Lola Lola Senior Member

    English, UK
    What Brian said is pretty much spot on. Does this help in finding an appropriate phrase to introduce the new paragraph?
     
  10. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    Unfortunately not. I don't see a contradiction between what Brian and I said.
     
  11. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Can it be translated as "Wie gesagt, ..." or "Wie ich/er/sie bereits sagte, ..." in special context?


    In the online dictionary http://www.dict.cc/?s=having+said+that I found: "nichtsdestotrotz" and "abgesehen davon". Both have slightly different meanings, but both fit Brian's condition of counterargument.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  12. Sidjanga Senior Member

    German;southern tendencies
    "Wie gesagt" picks up something that's been said before and introduces a sentence that bascally repeats the same thing, though maybe in other words.

    Having said that, on the othe hand, introduces a contrast, a counterargument, or something to relativize what's been said before, but always a new aspect.
     
  13. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    American English, Palestinian Arabic
    I think that "allerdings" would work as a translation in most contexts.
     
  14. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    Maybe. It is again closer to "nevertheless" than to "having said that". But as there isn't an exactly matching phrase, using "nichtsdestoweniger", "nichtsdestotrotz" or "trotzdem" ("in spite of this") is probably still the best you can do.

    EDIT: I like Elroy's suggestion!
     
  15. Derselbe Senior Member

    Deutsch, German, ドイツ語
    Andererseits could also work. It really pretty much depends on the particular context.

    Many people still dislike that word and consider it wrong German. I don't have a problem with it, but I try to avoid it anyway especially in written documents like reports. You never know how the person who reads the document feels about it.
     
  16. Sidjanga Senior Member

    German;southern tendencies
    I think I actually prefer andererseits (which I wanted to suggest myself, but I then didn't as I thought we were basically still waiting for a concrete context... ;)).

    While allerdings is generally a good idea and can probably be used in most situations, my impression is that it's weaker than having said that.
     
  17. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Even in English, however is clearly weaker - if you wanted to use however instead of having said that, you'd really have to stress it, in my opinion: HowEVER! As such, in writing I'd definitely prefer having said that.

    Also, it's interesting that German does not have a set phrase for this. In French it's cela dit and in Italian it's detto questo.
     
  18. Derselbe Senior Member

    Deutsch, German, ドイツ語
    Does having said that mean the same as then again or is that closer to come to think of it?
     
  19. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    It's not like come to think of it because come to think of it means you hadn't considered the other viewpoint earlier (instead, it suddenly just came to you), whereas having said that implies that you already know the other viewpoint, but you saved presenting it until now.

    But yes, it is indeed much like then again, except more formal. Also, having said that generally follows a somewhat long argument/explanation, while then again generally follows a short statement or two. In other words, I would not talk for 20 minutes and then say then again.
     
  20. Sidjanga Senior Member

    German;southern tendencies
    Seeing that there's no direct equivalent in German, depending on the context and the flow of the conversation or argumentation it might be a good idea to simply use a combination of andererseits and aber (or similar words) plus perhaps a few modal particles to get the "having said that" idea across, and say

    Andererseits wäre es aber natürlich (noch) viel besser, wenn...

    or something similar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010

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