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He has gone vs. He is gone

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by d4n183, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. d4n183 Junior Member

    Italia
    Italiano
    Sostanzialmente che cosa cambia se dico He has gone o He is gone, c'è qualche differenza?
     
  2. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    Ciao!
    C'è, però se ci fornissi un contesto, potremmo essere più precisi.....

    Intanto, ti dico che:

    He has gone = il passato prossimo normale, e va bene.

    He is gone, invece, è teatrale (letteralmente). Lo vedo molto bene inserito nel contesto di un melodramma, con l'eroina sul molo per salutare l'amato, appena partito per un viaggio pieno di pericoli, che si strappa i capelli e urla: "He is gone!!!!!"

    Però, ripeto, se ci mandi qualche frase è meglio...:)
     
  3. giovannino

    giovannino Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Non mi sembrano intercambiabili:

    He's (= he has) gone to London

    He's (= he has) gone away

    He's (= he has) gone out

    (in queste frasi corrisponde a "è andato")

    He's gone (= he is gone)
    E' sparito/Non c'è più

    He is gone si usa anche al passato prossimo:

    He's been gone two hours
    E' uscito due ore fa e non è ancora tornato/E' sparito da due ore
     
  4. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Don't forget that even when you read "he's gone" it's often the contracted form of "he has" and not only of "he is".
     
  5. Leo57 Senior Member

    Yorkshire
    UK English
    Hello everybody
    I'm quite shocked by this as I could never ever say "he's gone" meaning he is gone. In fact I was so surprised I have done a quick search and have seen "he is gone" when the sentence warrants it. (Not contracted.) However, I will have to look into this further and see if I can find any contracted forms of he's gone meaning he is gone.

    Ciao
    Leo :)
     
  6. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
  7. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH

    Yes, indeed! (Did you see what I wrote in reply to the original question? ) I've never seen the contracted form either.
    Bye for now , let us know (I'll have a hunt around too, if I have the time...)! Jo

    EXTRA FOOD FOR THOUGHT

    What about when we say:

    Q Where is it?
    A It's gone (meaning disappeared) - are we 100% sure that this = it has gone and not it is gone? It might be, because here "gone" could be perceived as an adjective, not the past participle of the verb to go...

    Having said that, could we say He's (he is) gone meaning He's disappeared?
     
  8. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    I think I've heard it a few times, especially in regard to a partner who left for ever.

    She/he's gone for good (meaning she/he won't come back any more).

    I guess this was meant to be "she/he is gone".
     
  9. giovannino

    giovannino Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Hi Leo:)

    Of course when I wrote the "he's been gone two hours" example I took it for granted that 's would be taken to stand for has, not is.

    He is gone is in the present tense. He has been gone is the present perfect (passato prossimo) equivalent of he is gone. I gave the example of a present perfect with gone because I've often heard sentences like he's been gone for two hours and many of my Italian friends are puzzled by them.

    The Longman Dictionary treats gone as an adjective in these cases:

    I must admit I didn't know that he is gone is never contracted to he's gone, so thanks to you and Jo for pointing that out.*
    However in Jo's example (- Where is it? - It's gone) I think there is no doubt that gone is being used as an adjective, as in the Longman entry (I turned round for my bag and it was gone), and that 's stands for is there.

    * I see Jo is having second thoughts, though:

     
  10. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    Without looking into it too much I'd say that "is gone" and "is come" are old English, superseded by "has gone" and "has come" except in certain expressions and as a result "gone" and "come" are now seen as adjectives, but used to be seen as participles even after "is".
     
  11. SleepingLeopard Senior Member

    English - United States (New York)
    Yes, this is correct. English used to use "to be" as an auxilliary for certain verbs (I am come), in the same way that Italian uses essere for the past tense of some verbs. If you read Shakespeare, you find it quite a bit. English lost it a few hundred years ago, but constructions like "I am gone" were leftover, and we now see "gone" as an adjective in this sentence, since we don't conjugate verbs in the past with "to be" anymore.
     
  12. luke071 New Member

    italian
    Ciao
    Come si traduce la frase io sono andato?
    Essendo un present perfect io la tradurrei I have gone.
    Però ho trovato anche I am gone nel titolo di una canzone.
    Qualche mese fa inoltre è uscito un film dal titolo Grace is gone invece di Grace has gone.
    Qual'è la forma più corretta?
     
  13. SixthOfMay

    SixthOfMay New Member

    Rome
    Italian
    Il present perfect in inglese prevede l'uso dell'ausiliare "have", senza eccezioni, quindi, laddove il passato prossimo del verbo andare vada reso col present perfect, la traduzione è:

    I have gone

    I casi da te citati non sono forme alternative di costruzione del present perfect, bensì esempi di coniugazione presente del verbo essere in cui la parte predicativa è costituita da un participio passato (gone, in questo caso).
    In italiano è più complicato differenziare, ma con una traduzione meno letterale forse il senso diventa più chiaro:

    Grace has gone = Grace se n'è andata
    Grace is gone = Grace non c'è più

    Anche in italiano il participio passato di andare può essere usato come un aggettivo, e forse nei seguenti esempi risulta maggiormente evidente:

    La lavastoviglie ormai è andata (non funziona più, è guasta)
    Questa frutta non si può mangiare: è andata (avariata)
    Grace non fa che dire strane cose: è proprio andata! (impazzita, rovinata)
     
  14. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    Premesso che a volte il passato prossimo italiano si traduce anche con il nostro past tense.....dipende dal contesto (temporale). Non mi dilungo qui, è stato ampiamente dibattuto all'interno di altri thread.

    Comunque, ti consiglio di leggere questo thread dall'inizio; si parla di have gone/is gone.:)
     
  15. anglomania1

    anglomania1 Senior Member

    Piacenza, Italy
    UK English
    Yes, I totally agree! It's very Jane Austen! She often uses "to be" (I'm sure Mrs Bennet says "he is come! he is come!" to Jane when Bingley arrives unexpectedly!)
    Anglo
     
  16. AshleySarah

    AshleySarah Senior Member

    Australia
    English - N.Ireland
    What about the common expressions "I'm gone" and "You're gone", meaning "I'm/You're in trouble now". Then there's "I thought when the boat sank that I was a 'goner'". It's much the same as saying "I've had it", you've had it, I'd had it".
     
  17. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
     
  18. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    Jo, this North American dictionary defines a goner as somebody or something beyond hope of recovery, especially somebody who is dead or about to die (slang), so I presume it is used there as well. :)
     
  19. anglomania1

    anglomania1 Senior Member

    Piacenza, Italy
    UK English
    Hello Charles,
    I agree with Jo, I've never heard of "I'm gone" meaning "I'm in trouble" so maybe it's an Australian expression (do you know it too?).
    I have heard of "a goner", though, just like Jo, so maybe this is more international.:)
    Anglo
     
  20. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    I need to go to the optomestrist! Thanks Anglo. :)

    'He is gone" can also mean "He is dead".
    Link
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2009
  21. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    Sorry, yes, I should have said that although we do use it in the UK it is AE (we got it off all those American films and TV series!:D). John Wayne talk, I call it!:D
     

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