Hindi: sanjokar

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    In the "chaar vyakti.." thread, Wolverine9 asked whether the following sentence was correct.

    "chaar vyakti bazaar jaa raheN haiN".

    TS was the first to respond and stated that "bazaar" was a simple typo and it ought to be "baazaar". He then offered some words of wisdom.
    I wonder if Wolverine9 or any other Hindi speaker would be kind enough to provide a simple English translation for the highlighted sentence. I think "sanjokar" comes from "sanjonaa" but I am struggling with the general sense of the sentence. It appears that the sentence is perfectly fine in the eyes of the author and one of the respondents. This might well be the case.

    Thanking you in advance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  2. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Well QP saahib, here TS jii is advising you keep these chhoTii moTii mistakes close to your heart that is to say you could treasure them or cherish them. Sanjonaa also means to string together to make a garland/necklace too. By that logic, these mistakes could be strung together to make a necklace. Perhaps TS jii can confirm the meaning he had in mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  3. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole

    baraabar....to cherish
     
  4. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Chhaatr Jii, thank you very much indeed for the explanation. So here "sanjokar rakhnaa" means to "cherish" or "treasure". Is this correct? I thought it possibly implied "sameT kar rakhnaa" or "saNbhaal kar rakhnaa". How could this comment be possibly addressed to me when the the enquirer was Woverine9? I don't quite follow how one can deduce this from this sentence.

    What you have provided is an explanation for which I am grateful. I would appreciate very much for an English translation of the sentence, if this is not too much to ask. This is what I had requested in my opening post.
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    As you are the author of the Hindi sentence which is the subject of this thread, perhaps you would be kind enough to provide us with its English translation so that its meaning is clear to everyone. You would be best person as you would know exactly what you had in mind.
     
  6. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^ I have also tried to grasp the meaning of this sentence but I am unable to get my mind round it. In dictionaries I haven't yet come across the meaning of sanjonaa as ''to cherish''. I would be also grateful for the author's or anybody else's attempting a translation in English. In case of no answer it would eerily seem like a unilateral transfer of information. Considering that this thread has 120 views in 4 days time, I think neither you nor I are the only ones who would wish this question be solved. The sooner the better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ It would most certainly be a very sad state of affairs if no one from the Forum Hindiphones is able to come forward to offer a possible translation for this sentence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  8. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    162 and counting!
     
  9. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Perhaps, perhaps ''sanjokar'' means to arrange beautifully on a tray? I think we would never know, we are left with speculations.
     
  10. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Merii taraf se is jumle ke angrezii tarjame kii chhotii moTii sii (naakaam?) koshish kaa namuunaa pesh hai:

    pls cherish these small/inconsequential mistakes so that they may become weapons in future. OR

    pls keep these small/inconsequential mistakes close to your heart so that they may become ammunition for your future posts.
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Well, The Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary by R.S.McGregor- OUP 1993 gives "saNjonaa" as v.t. 1) to arrange, to make ready; to lay out (as things on a tray). 2) to decorate
     
  12. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    We have a "kahaavat" in Urdu. "der aa'e durust aa'e". Thank you for your translation. Please allow me to put these along with the original Hindi sentence. I have taken the liberty of changing your "pls" to "Please".

    "aisii CHoTii moTii galatiyaaN sanjokar rakhiye taaki aage chalkar ye hathiyaar ban sakeNgii."

    1) Please cherish these small/inconsequential mistakes so that they may become weapons in future.

    2) Please keep these small/inconsequential mistakes close to your heart so that they may become ammunition for your future posts.

    Would these translations be a fair representation of your sentence, TS?
     
  13. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    My Hindi lexicon has the following definition:

    saNjonaa: (padya meN prayukt: saNjovanaa, sthaanik: sajonaa) - sajaanaa; ekatr karna*; puuraa karnaa; saNchit karnaa**

    *= ikaTThaa karnaa **=jamaa (Ur. jam3) karnaa ~ ''save, store up, collect''.

    When I'm comparing the meanings from McGregor with the abovementioned meanings, I'm leaning towards my source. I would translate the sentence (well, it seems impossible to me to represent the syntax errors from the original Hindi sentence in English translation so on this point please bear with the inaccuracy, but I'll give it a try) in the following way:

    Please store up/collect and keep these kinds of minor errors so that they will be able to become a weapon in the future.

    Which meanings reflect what you were intending to convey, TS?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ @TS: To help us understand what you exactly meant to say in your Hindi sentence, the decent thing to have done and to do is to offer an English translation. To make such allegations as above is not helpful for you as a learner and other language learners following this thread. So, please how would you translate your Hindi sentence into English? This would help all to understand the mindset behind the sentence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  15. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ @TS: Thank you for the above. So, how would you translate the Hindi sentence in English?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  16. insouciantguru Junior Member

    India- English & Hindi
    If I may be permitted to venture an attempt. I'd translate it as:

    "Preserve and cherish these trivial faults so that you can weaponize them [to your benefit] somewhere down the road".
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  17. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I hope this thread ultimately proves to be of benefit to TS, the author the sentence below as well other learners of Hindi and indeed Urdu.

    aisii CHoTii moTii galatiyaaN sanjokar rakhiye taaki aage chalkar ye hathiyaar ban sakeNgii

    One must not forget that the above comment was made to Wolverine9 who had asked the question, “What’s incorrect in this sentence?” pointing to the sentence in her thread title “chaar vyakti bazaar jaa raheN haiN”. Here are two versions of Chaatr Jii’s English translations.

    1) Please cherish these small/inconsequential mistakes so that they may become weapons in future.

    2) Please keep these small/inconsequential mistakes close to your heart so that they may become ammunition for your future posts.

    Let’s once again take a look at what “The Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary” by R.S. McGregor (OUP 1993) has to say about the verb "saNjonaa" from which "sanjokar" is derived. "sanjokar" is in fact "sanjo kar" which I believe is known as "conjunctive participle" in terms of grammar.

    saNjonaa. v.t. 1. To arrange, to make ready; to lay out (as things on a tray). 2. To decorate

    With due respect to Chhaatr Jii’s translation, “ban sakeNgii” is not “may become” but “will be able to become”. Bearing this dictionary definition in mind, I would translate the sentence in question as follows.

    Keep such minor mistakes ready at hand so that in future/henceforth they will be able to become weapons.

    What message should Wolverine9 take from this? I would suggest that the first part of the sentence is quite clear but the tense after “taaki” is incorrect! So, the pearls of wisdom have been, alas, wasted. Here is possibly what was intended.

    aisii chhoTii-moTii galatiyoN se bachiye taaki aage chalkar ye tumhaare khilaaf hathiyaar na ban sakeN.

    Avoid such minor mistakes so that in future they may not become weapons against you.

    Another possibility is the following.

    aisii chhoTii-moTii galatiyoN se bachiye nahiiN to aage chalkar ye tumhaare khilaaf hathiyaar ban jaa’eNgii.

    Avoid such minor mistakes otherwise in future they will become weapons against you.

    But unless the author of the sentence, a person who is a native English speaker with “years of Hindi study” to fall back on, comes forward with his intended meaning of the sentence and a possible English translation for it, we are left with no choice but to offer possible interpretations of the said sentence.
     
  18. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    Not sure if tonyspeed's comment was meant as a swipe towards me or anyone in particular, but it appears his remark was out of frustration for what he perceives to be nitpicking. He probably thinks the lingering tension with some forum members would escalate if he were to offer an explanation.
     
  19. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    That aside, what is your understanding and translation of his sentence?
     
  20. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    I agree with the translations that have been offered so far. The exact meaning would probably depend on whether it was intended to be a general statement or directed towards a particular individual or individuals.
     
  21. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I would be most grateful for a direct answer. Surely, not all the translations can be at once correct. How would you translate the sentence yourself? I can not be any clearer than this.
     
  22. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    "Preserve/cherish (~remember) these small mistakes so that they will become weapons/ammunition in the future."
     
  23. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you!
     
  24. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    wah! Thank you for this accurate translation.

    As Gb-ji mentioned, "eNgii" was intended.
     
  25. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I personally do not think you still have a clear idea about the sentence structure. As far as my understanding goes, Wolverine9's translation is not accurate. You might wish to re-read my # post 17 and if you disagree with that, I would like to hear your reasoning. If I subsequently find out that I was misunderstanding something I shall come out in the open and admit that I had misunderstood it.
     
  26. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Can anyone please provide any (genuine) examples from Hindi or Urdu writings (or even on say Youtube) where the writer/speaker has used the future tense instead of the subjunctive after taa kih/taaki? Thanks.
     

Share This Page