Hindi/Urdu: baiThnaa vs. baiTh jaana or baiTh lenaa

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by eskandar, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. eskandar

    eskandar Moderator

    English (US)
    What are the semantic differences between these three verbs? My feeling is that while baiThnaa is the basic verb, baiTh jaana conveys motion ("to go sit") and baiTh lenaa would be equivalent to the English "to take a seat". Have I understood correctly?

    It also seems to me that, for example, baiTh jaa'o would be a more direct (maybe even more forceful?) command ("go sit down!") compared to baiTh lo ("take a seat"). Is that right?

    Finally, I would appreciate recommendations for a good (preferably somewhat comprehensive) source for these types of compound verbs in Hindi/Urdu. Dictionaries typically offer only the simple verb form, so aside from listening to contextual use it's hard to know when to say X karo vs. X kar lo or what have you, and I fear that my over-reliance on simple (non-compund) verbs makes my speech sound stilted.
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    eskandar SaaHib "baiThnaa" on its own means both "to sit" and "to sit down". The "jaanaa" in "baiTh jaanaa" to the best of my understanding has not to do with the person going from A to B but (possibly) his stature going from a sanding position to a seated position. Therefore, if my logic is correct,"baiTh jaanaa" is a more emphatic form of "baiThnaa". Let's use a couple of very simple sentences.

    e-SaaHib yahaaN baiThiye

    e-SaaHib yahaaN baiTh jaa'iye

    To me, the latter gives not only more emphasis to the act of sitting but also it seems politer than just saying "baiThiye".

    I am not aware of "baiTh lenaa" but for the causative "biThaanaa", one has "biThaa lenaa/denaa".

    B. SaaHib ne e-SaaHib ko apne paas biThaa liyaa aur kuchh raaz-daarii kii baateN karne lage!

    A. SaaHib ne Lakhnau kii sair karaane kii xaatir hameN ek sunsaan kuuche meN biThaa diyaa aur xud nah jaane kahaaN Ghaa'ib ho ga'e!

    Platts does go into compound verbs but I am not aware of a book on compound verbs as such. Any good grammar book covers this aspect of Urdu and Hindi.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2013
  3. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    eskandar SaaHib, jaanaa in these verbal forms does not relate to motion (go and ...). They need not be translated by parsing them. They cover an aspect of a verb, that is completion. They do provide an emphatic tone and while I agree with QP SaaHib's remarks, suppose I am shouting baiTho! it will not have this effect when I shout baiTh jaa'o! The stress is on jaa'o. I imagine it, in the terms of language, as ... baiTh[e hu'e ho ]jaa'o, equivalent to become seated - the action should be completed.

    khaanaa khaa'o - can mean both do start eating or eat it up
    khaanaa khaa jaa'o means eat your food up.

    You cannot parse it and translate, like in '' maiN uTh baiThaa''. May I ask you how you understand this sentence ?
     
  4. eskandar

    eskandar Moderator

    English (US)
    Thanks, both of you.

    I thought I had heard "baiTh lo" used but perhaps I misheard. (Is anyone else familiar with this compound?)

    Thanks QP SaaHib, I found an overview in Schmidt's "Urdu: An Essential Grammar" which was useful but not as comprehensive as I'd like.

    That's a very helpful way of thinking about it, thank you marrish SaaHib.

    If I understand it correctly, it's idiomatic and means "I got up/sat up". So your point is well-taken that I should similarly understand "baiTh jaana" as a single unit of meaning and not parse it according to its individual parts.
     
  5. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    eskandar Sb. as has been conveyed to you the term jaanaa here doesn't imply / indicate motion but is a more emphatic means of saying something and it also has nothing to do with a change in stature from standing to sitting position!

    We also say khaa / k_haa jaanaa (to devour; eat / consume (destructively).) instead of khaanaa /k_haanaa (verb, to eat), naaraaDh (ناراض) ho jaanaa, bigaR (بگڑ) jaanaa, etc. etc.
     
  6. eskandar

    eskandar Moderator

    English (US)
    Shukriya Faylasoof SaaHib. (Albatta jaise aap ko ma3luum hai, yahaaN, aap kaa vaTan meiN, maTlab shehr-i-Lucknow meiN, jis ke andar fi'l-Haal ham Urduu paRh rahe haiN, "baiThiye / baiTh jaa'iye" ke bejaa "tashriif rakhiye" bhii sunii jaatii hai! ;))
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ eskandar SaaHib, ho saktaa hai lakhnau vaale kuchh yuuN kaheN..

    albattah jaise aap ko ma3luum hai, yahaaN aap ke vatan meN, ya3nii shahr-i-lakhnau meN, jahaaN fi_lHaal ham Urdu siikh rahe haiN, vahaaN "baiThiye/baiTh jaa'iye" ke ba-jaa'e "tashriif rakhiye" balkih "tashriif farmaa'iye" ziyaadah sun_ne meN aataa hai.
     

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