Hindi/Urdu: Russia - रूस and روس - any difference

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Anatoli, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. Anatoli Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Hi,

    What's the difference in the pronunciation, if any, between रूस and روس (Russia) Hindi/Urdu? I found that the former can be romanised as Roos (Hindi) and the latter as Rus (Urdu). What are the actual vowels and are there variants? I suspect that in both languages it's pronounced as /ru:s/ with a long oo as in English "too". Please confirm.

    Also, what's the gender of Russia in Urdu and Hindi (masculine/feminine)?
     
  2. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Hello Anatoli,
    From what I've heard, both Hindi and Urdu would pronounce it as roos - Urdu definitely does, as it is روُس .

    In Urdu all countries are masculine therefore Russia is too. I suspect the same is perhaps true for Modern Hindi as I've observed in older Hindi grammars. The common Hindi word I know for country is desh / des देस des. Also masculine. We des use in Urdu too. However, the word we normally use for country = مُلک mulk (sing.) , مُمالک mumaalik (plural.), but sometimes also دیس des . (Many compounds can be seen with this, e.g. desii ghee = native clarified butter/ desii kapRaa = native cloth etc). We treat both mulk and des as maculines.

    Sometimes Urdu also uses دھَرتی dhartii (land / country) and even زمین zamiin (ground / floor / land / country) to mean country,the latter needing added context to clarify which meaning is exactly to be taken. Both of these words are feminine!
     
  3. Anatoli Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Thanks, Faylasoof, although I don't know what you mean by "roos". Are you using the English methods? You know in the Arabic forum the convention is uu (long u - "doom") and oo (long o - "pawn"). Is it a long oo as in English "too"?

    Thanks for clarifying the gender.
     
  4. Au101 Senior Member

    London
    England, English (UK)
    Yes, it should be a long oo as in "too", "doom", etc.
     
  5. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes I'm using <oo> as in <too> to mean roos, just as Au101 also mentioned.
    Perhaps It wasn't too clear but I wrote:
    The <pesh / Dammah ضَمَّہ> on the wau <وُ> --> long <o>, as above.
     
  6. Anatoli Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Thank you both. :)

    Faylasoof, by a long o I don't mean oo, English spelling is confusing in this regard. Dammah symbols don't help here as there is no distinction between o: and u: in tashkiil.
     
  7. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    OK, Anatoli! So what did you mean by the long <o>? Perhaps I can guess. Let me try.

    The trouble is both with English spellings and the various rules of transliteration that we all use. For example, in this forum though not all is fixed, most of us either use <oo> or <uu> to mean the long vowel sound in <too or do!>, and use <u> as in the word <put>.

    I resorted to the Arabic script with the <<pesh / Dammah ضَمَّہ> on the wau <وُ>> hoping it might make it better, but I also added that it was pronounced as the long <o> sound of <too>. It can make a difference as I show below:

    رُس = rus - where the <u> is as in <put>, a short <u>.
    رُوُس = roos – as in <too> and not the <o> of rose – the flower (گُلاب gulaab as we call it).

    But in the Persian-Urdu word روز , the pronunciation is just like the English “rose”. Also a long <o> but not like that in<too>.

    (Then there are these possibilities in an unvowelled text though here we needn’t worry about them:
    رُوَس = ruwas / ruvas & رُوِس = ruwis / ru - meaningless words but just to illustrate a point).
     
  8. Anatoli Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Thank you again, Faylasoof :)
     
  9. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Most welcome, Anatoli!
     
  10. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Would you believe that the word "Ruus" (Russia) is mentioned in Geoffrey Chaucer (1340-1400)'s Prologue to the Canterbury Tales. Here it is spelt "Ruce".
     
  11. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I'm most enlightened by your finding but there is a tendency to use English names for countries. I'd stay by ruus which seems to be an English borrowing! So in Urdu the inhabitant (baashindah) of the biggest country in the world is called a ruusii. I believe there are many literary examples, at least in Urdu, to back it.
     
  12. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Faylasuf has answered this question nicely. It is pronounced /ru:s/ not only in Hindi/Urdu, but also in Persian and Arabic. The Rus are mentioned in mediaeval Arabic texts when they were still a tribe of Vikings living along the Volga.
     

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