Hindi/Urdu: tere ko

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by panjabigator, May 12, 2010.

  1. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Salaam,

    What regions of South Asia use <mere ko> and <tere ko> in lieu of <mujhe> and <tujhe>? I am not talking prescriptively - I know that these are restricted, typically, to speech and operate on the lower, informal register, but their usage seems to be extended to quite a few cities and economic classes. It seems to be ubiquitous in Delhi, though I can only comment here on my experience and conversations with the Punjabiphone community. Certainly the norm in my house, I might add, which is interesting because such a construction doesn't map exactly with the Punjabi equivalent <mainū.n>. It's used in Bombay, yes? Is it common there? How is it pronounced in Hyderabad/Deccani?

    And is this heard in Pakistan or by Punjabiphone Urdu speakers as well?

    lcfatima started a nice thread a while back on the regional usage of <maine>, which might be of interest.

    PG
     
  2. Birdcall Senior Member

    English - American
    In Mumbai even many educated people say mere ko instead of mujhe when speaking colloquially. It's really common.
     
  3. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Well, it is quite common amongst non-native Urduphones! In Urdu it is taken to be wrong but many non-native Urdu speakers seem to use it regardless of the economic class they belong to.

    I have no idea if it is considered the norm in Deccani. My guess is that it might not be but those I know from Hyderabad whose mother tongue is either Tamil, Telugu or Kannada do use these. And you are right! In Delhi it has become very common.

    In Pakistan, and Karachi in particular, I heard both of these a lot and not just from Punjabis but Gujaratis, Pashtuns, Baluchis and Sindhis. Of course they were mostly but not exclusively of lower educational and economic class.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  4. linguist786 Senior Member

    Blackburn, England
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    I heard 'tere ko' and 'mere ko' in Mumbai a lot!
     
  5. teaboy Senior Member

    USA
    English
    I've heard it in Lahore, but I would never use it myself.
     
  6. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    Search for Bambaiya and Hyderabadi Hindi here.
     
  7. gagun Senior Member

    TS,india
    Telugu-TS, Deccani-TS
    first of all I want to clarify that people who speak second language they learn it in either acadamics or from their locals.so in india the people who were taught urdu use mujhe or tujhe but in state of hyd people who are educated or not use tereku/aapku or mereku in daily usage among themselves but when they go other places or meet others they use to speak the language of others not his own. second thing is people whos mother tongue either tamil or telug/kannada/marathi use aapku/tereku or mereku because they were not taught urdu even though they were taught some people has affection towards deccani hindi/urdu or their street language.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  8. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    ^ Indeed; agree completely.
     
  9. mundiya Senior Member

    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    I'm curious if Old Dakkhini literature uses "tere ku". I know that modern literature in Dakkhini speech is almost nonexistent.
     
  10. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Can you name any Deccani Hindi authors and possibly cite some examples from them where they have used "tereku" etc. Also, could you quote some thing from the Deccami Urdu writers such as Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah (1580-1611) and/or Mulla Vajhi (Sabras- 1635) illustrating the use of tereku?
     
  11. mundiya Senior Member

    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Some examples from Hindi Shabd Saagar, which has forms such as "tuj kuu.n" and "muj kuu.n" for Dakkhini. I didn't see "tereku", "mereku", etc., so I think these forms were never considered correct, but they may have been used colloquially then as they are now.

    उ०— (क) जिन्ने जन्म डारा है तुज कूँ । बिसर गया उनका ध्यान जू ।— दक्खिनी०, पृ० १४

    उ०—मुज कू दर बाबे इज्जत इतहार ।—दाक्खिनी० पृ० २१८

    मिल उस यार सूँ क्यूँ गहूँ मुज कूँ बोल ।— दव्खिनी, पृ० ८४

    उ०—कर नियत अव्वल मुज कूँ क्या हश्त तूँ आखिर । पाया मगर हूँ पाँच जनम छूट ई जनम ते ।— दक्खिनी०, पृ० ३२९
     
  12. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Thank you. The examples just give the source as "dakkhinii" without citing the author.
     
  13. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    I notice that you have used two terms "Deccani Hindi" and "Deccami [sic] Urdu": are you using them as synonyms, or do you have something else in mind?

    In addition, citing authors is not important: we have got native and non-native speakers attesting to the fact, plus several Bollywood films, including an upcoming film (and with an interview, already cited, which mentions the phenomenon).
     
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ I shall wait for a reply from gagun to whom I addressed my questions and any other knowledgeable speakers of Deccani Urdu. If I wish to ask a question about quotes from literature, that is my prerogative. I hope these sentences are clear in their message.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
  15. gagun Senior Member

    TS,india
    Telugu-TS, Deccani-TS



    Sir, there were famous deccani writers,among them wali dekhani was one who also contributed for deccani literature and he used tn write ku'n instead of ko(hindi/urdu) and haman (hamko),tuman(tum ko) the same is used by people here also till today except ku'n as tereku(tere ko),tumen(tum ko),hamen(hamko),aapku(aap ko),usku/use(usko), unen(unko)etc.your other question it is deccani hindi but i think it is neither hindi nor urdu for me(i might have observed wrong )it is deccani.I do not know much about that (wheather tereku is used or not)but i give you a link about wali muhammad

    www.gunche.blogspot.in/2012/04/wali-muhammad-wali-wali-dakhani.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
  16. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you and they were all Deccani Urdu writers, Vali Deccani being one of the much later ones. Written Urdu literature, by all accounts, began in the Deccan Sultanates namely Bijapur, Golconda and others after Muhammad Tughlaq moved his capital to Daulatabad in 1327. I have access to Vali Deccani's poetry and a number of other poets and prose writers of the Deccan a long before his time but thank you for the link. If you can read Urdu, I can provide you these sources.

    Your # post 7 implies that in Hyderabadi Urdu "tereku" and "mereku" is used instead of tujhe/mujhe. I have just been speaking with a mother-tongue Hyderabadi Urdu speaker. He agrees with this but said that they say “mere ko”, “tere ko” and not “mereku”, “tereku”. I have also been checking out a few Deccani videos. The newscaster has certainly been using “hai”. Try typing “DECCANI NEWS 29-07-2013” OR “11-05-2014 DECCANI NEWS”. I did n’t hear any "Hindi".
     
  17. mundiya Senior Member

    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Generally speaking, both terms (Hindi and Urdu) are used for Deccan speech. Vidya Balan, for example, called the language Hyderabadi Hindi in the article littlepond jii posted. Others prefer to call the language Dakkhini or Hyderabadi without further labels.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  18. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I don't know who Vidya Balan is but if this person said that the language spoken in these videos was French, I don't think Urdu speakers will take too kindly to it. I believe a label is important for the speakers of a particular language otherwise we would n't have states based languages. If Balan or anyone else has the mindset that the language of these videos is Hindi, then the word "subsume" as used by Professor Agnihotri as quoted in the thread "Hindi: Awadhi, Braj, Bhojpuri..dialects, languages or Hindi?" comes to mind. Perhaps a better choice of words for the good professor might have been "consume" or "swallow"!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
  19. mundiya Senior Member

    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    See post #6. She also discusses "tere ku". I understand the confusion. My comment wasn't specifically about the videos you mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  20. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    The abbreviation dakkhinii- given in that dictionary refers to दक्खिनी का गद्य और पद्य, संपा, श्रीराम शर्मा, हिंदी प्रचार सभा, हैदराबाद, प्र० सं० (dakkhinii kaa gadya aur padya, editor: Shriram Sharma, Hindi prachaar sabhaa, Haidaraabaad). The author is indeed not mentioned.

    I have a book with Dakkhini literature and language analysis in Hindi and the literature samples are transliterated into Devanagari. Here a relevant verse from the already mentioned Vali.

    तेरे नेह का मुँज को विच्छू लड़्या tere neh kaa muNj ko vichchhuu laRyaa
    मेरे सब ही तन में बिस उसका चड़्या mere sab hii tan meN bis us kaa chaRyaa
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  21. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    Not only does she discuss it, but she had to be trained by Deccani speakers for the film in the dialect: part of which was saying "mere ku", etc., avoiding "hai", typical pronunciation tics*, etc. Anyone who's lived in Hyderabad knows this: it's funny that Quresh jii simply ignores whatever doesn't suit his purpose, even if coming from experienced Hyderabadi people or residents, but still pitches in his own mother tongue speaker contact as some argument. Come on, now: if one keeps saying night as day a thousand times, some people believe that that will really happen. No, it won't, Quresh jii!

    * And she has done a real good job, as she does always. Having lived in Hyderabad, it was charming to hear the language again on screen.
     
  22. gagun Senior Member

    TS,india
    Telugu-TS, Deccani-TS
    Yes hyderabaadi baat is different and it is very sweat.
     
  23. gagun Senior Member

    TS,india
    Telugu-TS, Deccani-TS
    Yes ofcourse i read .can your provide links?
     
  24. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I'll send them to you via PM.
     

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