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Hindi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by viggo_sanlorenzo, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. viggo_sanlorenzo New Member

    Spanish
    Hello everyone! :)
    Please I need to know how you say this sentence in Hindi/Urdu.
    A girl wants to say to a boy:


    "Oh my God John, your hair is so beautiful that I want to make my home there"

    Thank you so much in advance!
     
  2. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Urdu: mere xudaayaa! John tumhaare baal itne khuubsuurat haiN kih in meN bas jaane kaa dil chaahtaa hai!

    It's an unlikely expression in Urdu/Hindi, though (making a home in someone's hair).
     
  3. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    I think it's unlikely in English as well.


    my attempt in Hindi (repetition is on purpose):

    haay rabba! John, tumhaare baal itne sundar haiN! itne sundar haiN! itne sundar haiN! ki maiN usmeN shifT kar luuNgii!

    (I have changed the statement to " I am going to take up living there" because it sounds more metaphorical as opposed to literal)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  4. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Urdu:
    ہائے / اف / یا) خدا ، ______! تمہارے/تمہاری (بال / زلفیں/ گیسو/ کاکل/مو) اتنے (حسین /خوبصورت /جمیل) ہیں کہ (ان میں آشیانہ بنانے کو/ بسیرا کرنے کو/ دائم ...مدام قیام کرنے کو) جی چاہتا ہے)
    (haa'e/uff/yaa) khudaa, ________! tumhaare/tumhaari (baal/zulfeiN/gesu/kaakul/muu) itne (Haseen/khubsurat/jameel) haiN keh (in mein aashiyaanah banaane ko/ beseraa karne ko/daaim...mudaam qiyaam karne ko) jee chaahtaa hai

    If you want to sound more poetic, maybe this could work:

    تیری زلف کے یہ سایے ، بس اب آگے کون جائے
    تو کہے تو زندگی کو ، میں یہیں تمام کر لوں
    یہ جھکی جھکی نگاہیں ، انہیں میں سلام کر لوں
    یہیں اپنی صبح کر لوں ، یہیں اپنی شام کر لوں
    تسلیم فاضلی

    teri zulf ke yeh saa'e, bas ab aage kaun jaa'e
    tu kehe to zindagi ko, meiN yeheiN tamaam kar looN
    yeh jhuki jhuki nigaaheN, inheiN mein salaam kar looN
    yeheiN apni subH kar looN, yeheiN apni shaam kar looN
    Tasleem Fazli
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I don't think "rabba" (rabbaa) would be construed as true Hindi barring Punjabi flavoured Bollywood songs.
     
  6. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    There are a lot of flavourings that can happen in language. But does that make it untrue? How far do we have to go to find the true form?

    Do I choose Lucknow, Vanaras, Mumbai, Delhi, Haryana, Allahabad, Agra, Bhopal, Indore? Or do I choose the book language? Is language of a Punjabi-origin but Hindi mother-tongue speaker in Dehli true? If I add in some Mumbai flavouring is it still true?
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Whilst keeping a cool head, please let us know how many other words besides "rabbaa",are used by Hindi speakers, that have the vocative "-aa" suffix. Let me add that perhaps I ought to have used the word "typical" instead of "true".

    By the way, what is "shift kar luuN gaa"?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  8. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Alfaaz SaaHib, congratulations, you have won in my eyes (if there ever was a competition). Especially the last one, there can never be a question of the text being unlikely in Urdu! Hats off! Your other expressions appear also very good. One typo. baseraa instead of beseraa. Another suggestion (I'm no longer sure if I am allowed to comment on anything in this forum but I hope you can benefit from it) I understand ''muu'' to be one hair and it is not used so much in Urdu unless in compound nouns, but they are ''fossilized''. I hope I'm correct on this so I'd request other friends to comment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  9. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I think it is the Punjabi influence of QP's numerous contributions in this forum at work here, not Lucknow, Banaras, Mumbai, Delhi etc. :) It is typical Punjabi, not Hindi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  10. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    uff Xudaayaa! John tumhaare baal to itne Hasiin haiN kih jii chaahtaa hai inhiiN meN apnaa ghar banaa luuN!
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    It can mean a single hair but it generally means "hair" in general.

    kahte to ho tum sab kih but-i-Ghaaliyah-mo aa'e
    yak martabah ghabraa ke kaho ko'ii kih vo aa'e!

    Ghalib

    In simpler language..

    kahte to ho tum sab kih vuh xush-buu~daar baaloN vaalii kaafir Hasiinah aa jaa'e
    lekin kyaa achchhaa ho kih tum achaanak ghabraa ke bol uTho, dekho vuh aa ga'e!!
     
  12. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^ Thank you for responding but in the first place for quoting the legacy of the Urdu language, and for the interpretation.

    I am still not convinced that muu means hair in general, on its own, but in this compound noun, the case of which I have mentioned above, it will surely be the case, as a rhetoric part of speech, pars pro toto.
     
  13. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    yih jo maktuub paRhaa us ne to Ghussah aayaa
    muu-i-tan raast hu'e, laal hu'aa, tharraayaa

    Naazim
     
  14. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    QP SaaHib, let them coming! It is so nice to read our masters. Still, muu/mo in those couplets are part of a compound noun, the disclaimer I submitted above. I recognize though that muu here is used in plural.
     
  15. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    he Bhagvaan! John tumhaare baal haiN kitne pareshaan*
    jii chaahtaa hai banaa luuN apne liye in meN ek makaan

    * bikhre hu'e

    or

    haa'e Raam, kitne hii sundar haiN tumhaare baal, John
    man meN aave hai banaa'uuN inhiiN meN apnaa makaan
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  16. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ muu-i-tan is not a compound!
     
  17. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Sitl, QP Saa|Hib, still. It is a part of a compound (adjectival); your poetry is most inviting I feel making abode in those hair!

    *juuN bannaa hogaa to?
     
  18. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Since men's hair seems to be a topic in this thread, there is another question that comes to mind: wouldn't all of the words (بال / زلفیں/ گیسو/ کاکل/مو), except perhaps بال/baal, be used to describe men's hairstyles like this, this, or this...(longer hair)?
     
  19. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Talking of typical Hindi :D a Hindi speaker would say "he Raam" rather than "haa'e Raam" in this context: 99 out of 100 Hindi speakers would do that. As far as "rabbaa" is concerned, many and many Hindi speakers use "rabbaa" as well - from "rabbaa" to "bhagwaan", from "khudaa" to "allaah", from "God" to "maalik", everything is part of Hindi - yeah, typical Hindi :)
     
  20. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I would n't say these words actually describe men's hair styles. Apart from baal and muu, they all do mean "curls" to a lesser or greater degree and in our Urdu poetry, more often than not they describe the beloved's hair. A well known Sufi saint bore the title... Xvaajah bandah-navaaz gesuu-daraaz, his actual name being Sayyid Muhammad Hussain.
     
  21. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    Also Urdu, in the form rabb (originally Arabic, of course).

    As an aside, one has to be careful about making exact translations of expressions. The meaning can get lost somewhat if the idiom is peculiar to a language.
     
  22. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Yes, of course, رَبّ rabb is very much Urdu, but the vocative form with the suffix -aa is not a part of the Urdu system, however it is in Punjabi: O rabbaa meriyaa! which in Urdu we'd say او میرے ربّ O mere rabb!

    So I don't believe that Hindi differs from Urdu on this point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  23. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Your belief, however, does nothing to change the reality! In fact, "rabb" is used much, much less in Hindi than the vocative "rabbaa". There are numerous words ending in -aa in Hindi in vocative, even if the words themselves come from different sources: "ammaa", "abbaa", "rabbaa", "baabaa", etc. Not to mention "parmatmaa". ("he parmatmaa, ...." - vocative usage).
     
  24. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    If your thesis is correct then how do the nominative forms of ammaa, abbaa, rabbaa, baabaa and parmatmaa (shouldn't it rather be paramaatmaa?) look like?
     
  25. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    There is no thesis: that is the work of those people who love to bring in some elitist stance. "rabbaa" is a commonly used word in Hindi: period. I don't know what's happening in Urdu, but anyway in Urdu there is not much variety for speaking to God, so it wouldn't surprise me.

    Meanwhile, in the manner of speaking, it should be rather "parmaatmaa".
     
  26. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I have offered my understanding of the vocative aspect for Urdu and for Hindi as well, that was the point, remember? If rabbaa is a commonly used word *form* in Hindi, that's fair enough and I thank you for this information, but the question which I asked in the above post remains, and yes, do leave ''rabbaa'' out, what are the nominative forms of ammaa, baabaa, parmaatmaa, abbaa?
     
  27. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Faiz Ahmed Faiz, when talking about his beloved said..

    terii aaNkhoN ke sivaa dunyaa meN rakhaa kyaa hai!?

    What is there in the whole world, apart from your eyes!?

    You might say..

    mere John, tere baaloN ke sivaa dunyaa meN rakhaa kyaa hai!? meraa ghar! jo tumhaare baaloN meN hai!
     
  28. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    QP SaaHib, very appropriate and creative use of the shi3r, but I'd leave the ghar part out, just for not destroying the effect!.
    (Isn't it rakkhaa instead of rakhaa?)
     
  29. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    If your point is that the nominative forms remain the same, then I don't understand why do you want to arrive there by means of rhetorical questions rather than simply stating it? In any case, what you are asking is irrelevant: we are not discussing nominative-vocative grammar here, nor do people start thinking of that before opening their mouths (except certain of those who aim to be grammar books walking on legs). People speaking experience "aa" as ending in many words that they are using in vocative, so "rabbaa" comes naturally to them - we were discussing the experiential aspect of things! LOL.
     
  30. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Amongst this list, the only word that is in the vocative case is "rabbaa" which is not part of either Hindi or Urdu grammar. If it were there would be other vocatives formed on the same pattern. This is based on Punjabi grammar and xudaayaa is based on Persian vocative pattern.

    The word is ammaaN, not ammaa. As it happens, neither is in the vocative case. It would be a joke or height of ignorance to state that baabaa, abbaa, parmaatmaa (may be we should include other non-declinable words ending in -aa such as daryaa as well here) are in the vocative case. One can use them as such where he/ai/are/o etc is understood but the -aa in them has nothing to do with the -aa in rabb-aa. When this -aa is removed, the basic word still remains. In other cases mentioned, we would be left with baab (door and chapter in Urdu), amm, abb, parmaatm, dary.
     
  31. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ I prefer to state rather that these words do not decline in the vocative case, but when you say "O parmaatmaa", then "parmaatmaa" is being directly addressed to and is in the vocative case. That no change is occurring from its nominative form is something that I've already said before: I see no joke. The word "Urdu" comes from Turkish, that doesn't make it less Urdu; where "rabbaa" comes from is none of the concerns here: the word exists in spoken and written language (Hindi).

    As far as "amma(N)" is concerned, it's "ammaa" that is far more common than "ammaN": it's also a joke that you continue to disregard the language as it is.
     
  32. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Don't hesitate to offer an example of it
    from written Hindi.

    Please re-read post #22 which made you response initially. I clearly stated that the vocative SUFFIX -AA was not part of the Hindi system and you threw baabaa, parmaatmaa as counter evidence!!!
     
  33. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    You would find many Bollywood songs for that; do you really wish me to do the searching for you?

    I am afraid you misunderstood completely the "counter evidence"! I merely said that in Hindi there are many words which end in "-aa" when they are in vocative: if you thought that to be addition of suffixes, that's your problem. When a man grows up in a language, he doesn't analyse suffixes: he just feels many "aa"s in particular "zones". I am afraid that the argument will anyway be beyond you.
     
  34. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I have asked for examples from written Hindi, not sung, and yes, I'd insist that you search for it so that we can have a better idea of its usage.
     
  35. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    The argument is quite clear. Whether someone wishes to accept it or not, that is another matter. Neither Hindi nor Urdu have a vocative case that ends in "-aa". For a learner of Urdu/Hindi, as is the case with the OP, giving her "haay rabbaa" as a Hindi translation for "Oh my God.." implies that either "rabbaa" means "My God", which it does n't or that it is "God” in the vocative case, which it is. But this “-aa” case ending for the vocative is NOT part of Hindi (or indeed Urdu) language structure. However hard one tries to accommodate “ammaa” and “abbaa” as samples of Hindi vocative, one is left with no choice but to have a hearty laugh and reject them!

    It is not surprising that when requested, none of the Hindi speakers have come up with written examples of this usage and the best that has been offered is..
    Well, if one makes a claim then it should not be incumbent upon other people to substantiate it. Besides, Bollywood songs are not a written source. Not only this, we know what language these songs and the screenplay are in. Let’s us quote a participant from this thread.

    Let us quote another participant.

    I don’t know what the connection of “rabbaa” as a vocative is with “Urdu” as a word being of Turkish origins or indeed Hindi, as a word, being of Persian origins! One ends in "-uu" and the other in "-ii". Neither in "-aa".

    I respect Wolverine9 for calling a spade a spade and his/her description of Hindi as “a type of creole” is quite apt for “the language as it is”. Perhaps he/she was over kind in using even this term!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  36. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    ^ Actually, I was referring to Hinglish as a type of creole.

    I think this discussion might be deviating from what the OP had in mind.
     
  37. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Sure. The emphasis has been placed on the language as it is. This has been described in the "kih" thread as below (emphasis mine).
     
  38. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    OK, then, let me teach you how to search on the Net, right? Go to google, type "रब्बा" and select whichever results you think pass your qualification tests out of the 53,900 results available (as of now). Happy searching! :p If you want to disqualify all those 50,000 results for any of your whims, it's OK with me: you can live always with your own notions, no one is preventing that, hehe.
     
  39. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Your patronisingly pathetic response leads any reader to one conclusion only. By not providing written examples of Hindi use of "rabbaa", you have failed to substantiate your claim!

    A higher level of initiation to the mysteries of searching on the Net, if it you haven't reached there yet: the results should be approached critically since it is no Oracle whose judgments are to be accepted without discrimination. I left this privilege of separating the wheat from the chaff with you as it was you who made reference to written Hindi sources using the word ''rabbaa''.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  40. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I'm not keen on Facebook so I to conduct a "face to face survey"of friends who happened to be Urdu speakers read these posts. *Every one of them* exclaimed when reading haay rabbaa that it was Punjabi!!!
    Well, they were not Hindi speakers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  41. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English


    I am not deposing before a court of enquiry where I need to substantiate my claims: if you choose to remain within your veils of ignorance, you are welcome to them. Someone can only show you the way, not drag you onto it.

    Search engines and social networking sites may not be oracle, but they are very good indicators of what the usage of a word is and how widespread it is. 50,000+ results of "rabbaa" in Nagari can be exclusively Punjabi in your mind, and you are, as I said above, welcome to live with such notions.

    Oh, I guess that you think that when a hero dances around a girl in a garden of roses, it inspires the playback singer so much, that the sight immediately fills him with a song which he bursts forth with! Haha, good one! Reminds me of the protagonist from Guddi. :D
     

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