ho pensato bene di - pensare bene di

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by francescaf, Feb 17, 2007.

  1. francescaf Senior Member

    italy italian
    hello everyone! can "the party was boring and i thought well to go home" translate "la festa era noiosa e ho pensato bene di andarmene a casa?"
    thanks!
     
  2. TimLA

    TimLA Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    English - US
    It certainly could..."well" looks a little funny, so maybe

    The party was boring so I thought I would go home.
    The party was boring so I thought about going home.
    The party was boring so I thought I'd better go home.
     
  3. billioon Senior Member

    Italy - Italian
    Ciao, voglio provare a fare la mia traduzione, credo che come l'hai fatta tu sia troppo letterale, e sono curioso di vedere i posts dei nativi.

    "the party was boring and I'd rather have thought to go home"
     
  4. SweetSoulSister Senior Member

    American English
    What do you mean by "ho pensato bene"? I am thinking "the thought was correct" or "it was the right thing to have thought".
    Maybe:
    The party was boring so it was only right that I went home.
     
  5. francescaf Senior Member

    italy italian
    mmh, I see what you mean. "well" looks funny, hey?
    would "fit" be just as funny?
    is it ever used in this way, quite apart from my sentence?
    thank you!
     
  6. billioon Senior Member

    Italy - Italian

    Hi, as soon I said it, TimLa has come.
    I like the third one

    Bye
     
  7. TimLA

    TimLA Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    English - US
    This is one of those situations where a native speaker in one language will translate something from their language into a target language, and assume that it has the same meaning. I know this, because I do it ALL THE TIME into Italian! :D

    So I know what you are saying in the sentence, but I'm not sure that the "bene" really needs translation here.

    But to answer your question, yes:

    It would do you well to think about...
    You would do well to think about leaving the party.
    It would have to be well thought out...
    He thought well of it...

    But these are old forms, or more formal than you need in your sentence.
     
  8. francescaf Senior Member

    italy italian
    the sentence can work very well like you made it, in fact "bene" is only there to "strengthen" the verb.
    if you say ho pensato di andare a casa doesn't imply anything, but if you say ho pensato bene di andare a casa you are definately turning up your nose at the party. at least I think that's it...

    thank you! i understand now. you see, I needed to check if it was ever used, but my sample sentence has too low a register for the use of it, I guess. thank you again!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2009
  9. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Ho pensato bene di...
    I thought it better to..
     
  10. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    This is a question, not a suggestion: could "ho pensato bene di andarmene a casa" mean "I thought seriously about going home"?
     
  11. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    It's an inaccurately written statement, the question mark has nothing to do with it.
     
  12. Pequod

    Pequod Junior Member

    Italiano - Sud
    Per intendere meglio "pensare bene": spesso viene usato ironicamente:
    "C'era benzina ovunque ed io pensai bene di accendermi una sigaretta".

    Non sono sicuro che "better" possa rendere adeguatamente "bene". Il senso è che "pensare bene" è pensare adeguatamente alla situazione, spesso in relazione all'attuazione di un progetto (e spesso si tratta di un'operazione non troppo articolata, quindi "di corto respiro").
    Altro esempio, stavolta non ironico:
    "La città in quel periodo era davvero invivibile, così pensai bene di farmi una vacanza".

    Forse vale la pena di raccogliere qualche esempio dalla Rete e commentarlo assieme in questo thread.
     
  13. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    Not really, billioon. Tim has the best translations at post No. 2.

    Yours would need to be changed to something like:

    "the party was boring and I thought I'd rather go home"
     
  14. giovannino

    giovannino Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Forse quando viene usato ironicamente, come nel tuo esempio, si potrebbe tradurre con "I had the bright idea of lighting/to light a cigarette".
     
  15. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I myself would like to ask a question, which is whether one could translate "ho pensato bene di andarmene a casa" as "I thought seriously about going home."
     
  16. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    Io direi " .. I figured I would/had better/may as well .."

    "Volevo fare una passeggiata, ma si e' messo a piovere, e ho pensato bene di rimanere a casa"

    " I wanted to go for a walk, but it started raining, and I figured I might as well stay home "

    No, that would not work. You would rather say :

    " Ho pensato seriamente di andarmene a casa "

    " Pensare bene di.. " is generally a phrasal verb meaning " .. I figured etc ", but not always.

    You can say , for instance " Penso bene di Donald Trump " , meaning that you have a good opinion of the man.

    Or, in a fixed phrase, " Pensaci bene " - " Think carefully about it "
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2013
  17. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    I'm confused as to the translation of 'pensare bene' . Certainly there's nothing grammatically wrong with "I thought seriously about going home." Are you saying that 'pensare bene' in the original sentence means something other than 'to think carefully' as in your last example or 'to think seriously' as suggested by theartichoke?
     
  18. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    Absolutely - " Ho pensato bene di andare a casa " means something like " I figured I may as well go home / I had better go home ".

    It's a phrasal verb , it's what it is.
     
  19. Alessandrino Senior Member

    Roma
    Italiano
    I don't think pensare bene here means to think carefully at all. In this context, it conveys the idea that the subject thought he'd have been better off if they had gone home, given that the party was boring. Bene is there to emphasise that "going home" was the natural and only possible action to take in such a situation.

    All things considered, and without further ado, I'd just go with a simple The party was boring, so I just thought about going home.

    EDIT: (partially) cross-posted with Odysseus
     
  20. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    I'm afraid I can't see the subtle difference.

    It may be a phrasal verb meaning 'I figured . ' but, considering Tim's suggestions and those of the artichoke, it seems to be within the limits of a liberal (i.e. not too literal) translation to translate the whole sentence as:

    "The party was boring so I thought seriously about going home".

    What is it precisely that doesn't work?

    Edit: didn't see Alessandrino's post. However, all the English translations give the idea that because the party was boring the thought of going home follows logically.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  21. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    Non credo che

    " I just thought about going home "

    funzioni , perche' questa frase non implica necessariamente che uno e' poi andato effettivamente a casa.

    " Ho pensato bene di andare a casa "

    invece, sottintende l'idea che uno e' andato a casa, non che ci ha solamente pensato.


    If you say " I thought seriously about going home " , does the sentence imply that you went home or not ?

    " Ho pensato bene di andare a casa " means " I went home "
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2013
  22. Alessandrino Senior Member

    Roma
    Italiano
    Hai perfettamente ragione. Non ci avevo pensato.
     
  23. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    OK. Now we're getting to it. You're right. In English, the sentence doesn't imply that you actually went home. You might have gone home or not. You might have thought seriously about going home but suddenly the stripper arrived and you decided to stay!! Sorry, if that's indelicate!

    So if you say "La festa era noiosa e ho pensato bene di andare a casa" this leaves no room for doubt that you actually did go home?
     
  24. Alessandrino Senior Member

    Roma
    Italiano
    No room whatsoever. He/she definitely went home.
     
  25. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    No it doesn't - and if I say " The party was very boring and I figured I'd go home " , did I go home for sure or not ?
     
  26. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    Thanks--I think I now get the difference between "pensare bene" as a phrasal verb and "to think seriously" about something. "I thought seriously about going home" would probably be used, I think, in contexts where you did NOT go home. You usually talk about giving "serious thought" to an option that you then reject. Though I fear someone's going to come up with an exception here....
     
  27. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    I concur - " That year I thought seriously about leaving the Company " means that I stayed, right ?
     
  28. Matrap

    Matrap Est Mod In Rebus

    Abruzzo, Italy
    Italiano
    Ciao

    Una proposta da un non madrelingua. :) Tell me whether it makes sense or not:

    "Ho pensato bene di andare a casa" "I made/took the right/wise decision of going home". Visto che comunque in italiano il fatto di pensare è seguito coerentemente dall'azione relativa...
     
  29. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    Well, almost certainly you did, especially if you said it to your spouse as you came in early from the party! :D It's much more likely than if you said 'I thought seriously . .'

    Again, almost certainly you did, yes. If that is the only sentence.

    However, it's likely that more would follow. Perhaps: "That year I thought seriously about leaving the Company. I spoke to my manager about how I felt. He gave me a rise so I decided to stay" ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2013
  30. rrose17

    rrose17 Senior Member

    Montreal
    Canada, English
    Although Anglos in Montreal say "take a decision" all the time, it's not correct English. We are supposed to make decisions, not take them.:D I probably wouldn't say ...of going home.
    I made the right decision and went home.
    I made the wise choice to go home.
     
  31. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    Yes, this means that you definitely went home. :)
     
  32. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    Per Matrap - non credo proprio che il 'bene' di 'pensare bene' abbia un suo significato indipendente e specifico, il contrario di 'male', per intenderci.

    E' un po' come quando si sente dire " Gli avevo ben detto... " , dove 'bene' e' solo un rafforzativo.
     
  33. Phil9 Senior Member

    London
    UK English
    'Make' or 'take' are equally correct, although 'make' is perhaps more common than 'take'.
     
  34. rrose17

    rrose17 Senior Member

    Montreal
    Canada, English
    Who knew? But I see it's not a slam dunk.
     
  35. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    It's a lot worse when you read young Italians ( who start frequenting chat rooms of ill repute in English as Lingua Franca before they have solidified the Italian structures and lexicon in their young and impressionable minds ) use " fare una decisione " .. :mad:
     
  36. Connie Eyeland

    Connie Eyeland Senior Member

    Brescia (Italia)
    Italiano
  37. berlinboy New Member

    italiano
    Il miglior esempio che possa rendere l'idea e che abbia trovato:
    Expecting dangerous releases of poisonous gases from the cavern into the nearby towns, the engineers saw it as best to burn the gas off.
     
  38. sorry66 Senior Member

    France
    English, England
    "la festa era noiosa e ho pensato bene di andarmene a casa"

    The party was boring so I thought it best to go home.

    The party was boring so I figured it best to go home.


    The person thought about the situation and judged it the best decision to go home and so he did.

    To berlinboy: I would say 'saw fit/thought it best/ to burn the gas..'

    Re: my post above #38

    'thought it best to do...' means thinking followed by action so there is no doubt that that the person went home and so, I think, it accurately reflects 'ho pensato bene' in this context (given what everyone here in the forum has explained).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2015
  39. frugnaglio Senior Member

    Italian
    Really? To me, pensar bene (di fare qualcosa) does not have the meaning of “pensare + bene”. It's like another verb altogether. It really describes an action, rather than a thought. One could even say: Stavo piantando un chiodo, e siccome già mi ero fatto male, ho pensato bene di darmi un'altra martellata sul pollice. It doesn't mean “I thought it better/best to...”
     
  40. sorry66 Senior Member

    France
    English, England
    To frugnalio

    Isn't that what I've said in post #38? !! It's about action!

    It was raining heavily so we thought it best to cancel the picnic.

    I didn't look good with the new hairstyle so I thought it best to wear a hat to the party.

    The party was boring so I thought it best to go home

    (all these actions (cancelling, wearing a hat, going home), of course, might get interrupted or revised later but at the time, action was taken)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  41. frugnaglio Senior Member

    Italian
    I was replying to Paul, since I was surprised by his comment coming from a native speaker.

    However, am I wrong in construing 'I thought it best to do X' as 'I thought the best course of action, among all the possible ones, was to do X (and I did it)'? I'm asking because, to me and to some other Italian posters in this thread, this is not the meaning of the Italian expression (though in some cases it is compatible with this meaning). It has nothing to do with what is best, or even with what is good.
     
  42. sorry66 Senior Member

    France
    English, England
    To frugnalio:

    After a long discussion, people in this forum decided that (in this context) the person follows the best course of action - he doesn't just think about it and do nothing, he acts. (post # 38 )

    "la festa era noiosa e ho pensato bene di andarmene a casa" = The party was boring so I thought it best to go home
     
  43. frugnaglio Senior Member

    Italian
    I think we know too little of the context to decide what is the best translation. So I took the OP as meaning “how can I translate this particular turn of phrase into English” and not specifically referring to that scenario.
    (I can easily imagine boundary conditions for that scenario that would make 'thought it best' completely wrong as a translation.)
     
  44. sorry66 Senior Member

    France
    English, England
    'thought it best' works corresponds well here (of course, there are other variations like 'saw fit/thought fit' etc.)

    The party was boring so I thought it best to go home

    It can be used for other situations as I've illustrated in post# 40. (and I've explained my reasons in post # 38 (it takes into account what everyone has said in this thread - Paul's post was an old post and the discussion had moved on))

    I don't really think we should prolong the thread further (over 40 posts!) unless you've actually found a better (all-encompassing) translation!

    (Sorry :(, but I think this is getting repetitive so I'm bowing out!)
     
  45. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    "la festa era noiosa e ho pensato bene di andarmene a casa" = "la festa era noiosa e ho pensato che la scelta migliore/più intelligente fosse quella di andare a casa"
    I'm quite happy with this translation.
     

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