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How do donkeys call?

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    The point is : in Dutch we pronounce it as ee-ah ( i - a, we spell it), which to me means the most open and the closest vowel (in Dutch and all other languages, I think). By the way those are also the sounds toddlers first use in Dutch (mama, papa, pipi, kaka, ...).

    I'd think it should be similar in a lot of languages. or isn't it ? Will you please mention the pronounciation especially ?

    Thanks,
    jang
     
  2. jazyk Senior Member

    Brno, Česká republika
    Brazílie, portugalština
    In Brazil we say something like iirró (hard to spell), but the rr would be similar to a Dutch h or ch.
     
  3. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Interesting: we do not hear a sound between the two. What can the sound of the final o be compared with (the sound of come or of dome) ?
     
  4. Joannes Senior Member

    Antwerp
    Belgian Dutch
    I'm not completely sure what "we" and "the two" are referring to, but if it's "we, speakers of Dutch" and "the two vowels in i-a", then I don't agree: there's a glottal stop (i.e. the sound I think you say when you say eftjes m'n eetn laatn zakn :)).
     
  5. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Yes, but our donkeys do not seem to have the glottal stop between the i-a, I think. I do recognize the glottal stop in eetn , though we do not have it in our dialect!
     
  6. Joannes Senior Member

    Antwerp
    Belgian Dutch
    Then what do you say? *iejaa? *iewaa? You don't, do you? The fact that you write '-' indicates that you pronounce them seperately - well, in your mind, what you do is pronounce a glottal stop between them. Think about it. :)
     
  7. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    You might be right, but at least it is not... as clear as in West Flemish ! ;))

    In the meantime I might be starting to hear it, but I had not been talking to West-Felmsih donkeys ! ;-)
     
  8. avok

    avok Senior Member

    a-i, a-i in Turkish
     
  9. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Amazing: they do it the other way around ! ;-)
     
  10. avok

    avok Senior Member

    Hahaha, yes. But if a donkey does not stop making a sound, it will sound the same. ex: "ai ai ai" may become : ... a i a i a i a i...
     
  11. Tanthalas Senior Member

    Spain, Spanish
    In Spain donkeys talk as the Dutch ones ;)
     
  12. Nanon

    Nanon Senior Member

    Entre Paris et Lisbonne
    français (France)
    French donkeys can pronounce nasal vowels :D :
    "Hi-han ! hi-han !"
     
  13. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    [Or put it the other way round: the French hear the nasal sound ??? ;-)]

    Now where shall we have donkeys speaking some entirely different language without ee-ah/ i-a ???
     
  14. Nizo Senior Member

    In Esperanto azeno iaas (a donkey brays), he says "ia! ia!" By the way, this is also the name of the donkey (Eeyore) in Winnie the Pooh: Ia.
     
  15. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    In Hungarian, it is iá! - but I could not tell you whether the "i" is our closest vowel (could be), the á is certainly the most open.
    However, this vowel is not the same as in "mama, papa, baba etc." (Hungarian "a" does not have an equivalent in languages I know.)

    But before they start to speak, babies say "!" (a wailing sound) that contains the most open vowel.
     
  16. avok

    avok Senior Member

    I think it sounds like the "o" in "not" in English English or like open o in Portuguese.

    Now I see why "Eeyore" is called that way!! ee-oo, 'cos it is a donkey!
     
  17. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    It may well be, avok, but a Hungarian would never agree to that! :)
    I know that when English speakers pronounce say "asztal" (table) they say "osztol" and it may sound even acceptable for us.
    But when I say "not" in English, I don't think of "nat", I think of something between our "o" and "á"...
     
  18. avok

    avok Senior Member

    So you are more likely to adopt American/Canadian accent :) a long "nawt"
     
  19. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    It is very difficult to decide what one sounds like... It can certainly differ from what one would like to sound!:) But I/we don't "aim" at the long "nawt" - maybe a short one!
     
  20. Saluton Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    Russian: иа-иа (pronounced the same way as in Dutch). And it's also the name for Eeyore.
     
  21. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    So ee-ah is fairly general. Only strange to me that the Turks hear ah-ee ! ;-)
     
  22. sokol

    sokol Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria
    Austrian (as opposed to Australian)
    German (and Austrian) donkeys (which now live mostly in children's books rather than on farms) also say 'i-a' [i:-a:] (with main stress on the 'a' and secondary stress on the 'i').
     
  23. No_C_Nada Senior Member

    Castillian - Perú
    In these parts of the United States (California) it's "hee haw" in English and "jí jo" or "jí-jáu" in Spanish.


     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2008
  24. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    So anyone who explains the inverted sound order of Turkish donkeys ??? With us, we only have horses making such a high-pitched noise, and that is only one sound, not one following an open sound. Or are those Turkish donkeys mules/ crossbreeds ?
     
  25. avok

    avok Senior Member


    It's logical

    step 1: the donkey breaths in : that makes an "ah" sound
    step 2: it breaths out: that makes an "i" sound

    So it is "a-i" "a-i" "a-i".
     
  26. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am sorry, but then: why do the other donkeys breathe out before they breathe in ? ;-)

    More seriously: I do not think you can produce sounds while breathing in (except when playing the Aboriginal pipes the name of which I do not remember now)... Or: I do not think that explanation will hold...
     
  27. avok

    avok Senior Member


    You cant breath "out" if you dont breath "in" in the first place. There must be some breath "in"side to take "out". You can produce weird sounds when breathing in if you let your mouth open the way donkeys do. Sure I wont do that 'cos I am at work.
     
  28. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    I'd like to know if you actually have donkeys in your countries, near you; if you ever heard them yourselves.
     
  29. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, yes: I met ;-) some yesterday. But does that help to understand Turkish donkeys better ?
     
  30. irene.acler Senior Member

    Trento - Italy
    Italiano
    In Italian: ih oh, ih oh.
     
  31. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Now this is a little strange because the 'o' is rounded, also in Italian, I think. But still the mystery remains: why do Turkish donkeys call differently - or are they perceived to call differently ?
     
  32. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Because an onomatopoeia is just an imitation of the true sound, and there are different ways to imitate animal sounds.
     
  33. irene.acler Senior Member

    Trento - Italy
    Italiano

    That "ò" in Italian is open (as in the words "buòno", "suòno", "cuòre"...).
     
  34. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    It is a little less open than an 'a', but OK, thanks.

    As for the different ways of imitating sounds and creating onomatopeias, I quite agree, Mr O ;-), but the funny thing is there seems to be noone who hears the /ee/ first, except for our Turkish friends. Those 'strange' things 'entice' me to find a logic for that. I am simply very curious (by nature).
     
  35. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    To me, the strange fact is that all of those donkeys (leaving Turkish ones aside) speak the same language. I suspect most of the countries mentioned here didn't ever have any donkeys, so those sounds you say would just be imported, probably from Spanish or so.
    And the Turkish, they probably know their own donkeys sound too well to import any foreign take for it.

    Of course I might be completely wrong... Tell me, please.
     
  36. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    To me it is not a matter of language really. They simply produce the most closed and the most open sound (like children do), in a 'logical' order (except for the Turkish ones ;-) ) There is no copying, I think, just observation translated into (one or other) language.

    I keep wondering about the different word order !
     
  37. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    It feels very odd that different languages may express so closely the same sound. I'd say cocks sound the same all around the world, but in Spanish we see it as "kikirikí" (four /ee/ sound), while the English hear "cock-a-doodle-do" (completely different sounds!).
    This is only an example, but it shows how it usually works.
    Does anybody know any other animal which makes the same sounds in almost every language?
     
  38. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Very good question. Can our beloved moderator turn that into a new thread ? or shall I ?

    By the way: our cocks cannot pronounce the /r/ but they can round their lips ;-) which explains why they say : 'kuukelekuuu' (/uuu/ being [y] in phonetics) -- At least they all need 4 syllables to get their message across !
     
  39. avok

    avok Senior Member

    Because our donkeys are not European, so they do just the opposite of their European counterparts. :D
     
  40. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    [I thought you wanted to join the EU. So you'd better make your donkeys 'talk'/'call' the European way... ;-) ]
     
  41. avok

    avok Senior Member

    Turkey is a democratic country so our donkeys are free to call /make sounds the way they want. But I highly doubt they talk, at least I have not seen/heard any.:D

    PS: Not many people here want to join the EU. Don't believe everything your politicians say, they scare you with us :D to get more votes.
     
  42. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    I have already said that I feel Turkish donkeys:D to be the only genuine/true ones here.

    Thomask: when you speak of "a European way" of saying things, are you just kidding or such a thing does really exist? (by the way, I love your cocks having lips!)
     
  43. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    EU way: just trying to generalize - and trying to make politics more fun !

    In order to keep it funny: let's forget about the "true', or "genuine" cocks, or we might end up in fundamentalism (this is not a synonym for etymology, I hope) and to totalitarianism ! ;-)
     
  44. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    English: Hee haw
     
  45. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    Ok, Thomask, but this is different. Nobody is asking your cocks to pronounce the R sound. Fortunately, there is still a line between etymology and fundamentalism, and we're just talking of the first one.
    If you want to put it in language terms, then Turkish (and Spanish/Portuguese) donkeys would be "native speakers", and the others would be "foreign learners". But I wouldn't say one is better than the other; I do appreciate people (donkeys?) who are capable to learn from what is different from them.
     
  46. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Just trying to be funny, e.ma ! The fundamentalist tendency might be with me: I often tend to think one form (ee-ah) is in some way more logical, or one root is the same.

    As for cocks "not being able" to pronounce the /r/, to round their lips: I do love the sound flora -and I love the "vocal diversity", but I am still inclined to think E "carries back" to former roots - and often the IE.
     
  47. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    (I know, Thomask. I thought I was also being funny when I said some of the donkeys were native speakers.)

    Does "E" mean "English"? And "IE"?
     
  48. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, a good attempt at least. But E was meant to refer to etymology (I'll make it ET, or no, ETY next time !) and IE is Indo European (but that is fairly standard).
     
  49. e.ma Senior Member

    Spain
    Spain, Spanish
    Thank you Thomask. (You know, I'm fairly ignorant)

    Ok, I recognize the "European" part of IE (i. e., the "E") could be considered as "a European way to say things". You just have to leave the "Indo" parte aside, that's all! :D

    But then, you are answering your own question; for I don't think the ETY of Turkish donkeys' sound may carry you back to any IE root!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2008
  50. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    [Forget about ignorance, everyone has his/her interests, etc. - and intelligence as such won't save the world !]
    You're quite right, it does not make sense to look for a common (IE) root with regard to onomatopeia. But what is always interesting is learning to look at things from another (Indo ?) point of view (see worldviews at etymology). I think that is refreshing, equally refreshing as finding 'back' a root woord (and root meaning).
     

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