I am my own person

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by xxpenholderxx, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. xxpenholderxx New Member

    Dutch
    Hello,


    can someone help me translate the following to Hebrew:

    "I am my own person"


    Thank you very much in advance :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  2. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    If I understand your intention correctly, "אני אדם בפני עצמי". Please provide some context to this phrase, so we might be able to give you some better advice.
     
  3. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Its a hard one to translate as it doesnt have a real translation
    אני מה שאני
    bears a negative connotation
    אני עצמי
    is just weird but can work
     
  4. xxpenholderxx New Member

    Dutch
    It's a more poetic context, it is meant as a statement of independence.

    But thank you very much.
     
  5. xxpenholderxx New Member

    Dutch
    Is that because there isn't a translation for ownership in this sort context?
    What I actually want to accomplish is a prase that says that I'm independent and every choice I make is one of my own, therefore I am me/myself/ own person.

    And thanks again, I'm really gratefull for helping me.
     
  6. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Precisely, there is no direct ownership in this context.


    אני אדם בפני עצמי
    is good enough to what you ask for or
    אני עומד בפני עצמי
    אני אחראי לעצמי
     
  7. GeriReshef

    GeriReshef Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    אם אין אני לי מי לי?
    This proverb from the Mishna (אבות) could be a possible translation.
     
  8. Tararam Senior Member

    Hebrew
    That's more like: "If I don't act to serve my own interests, no one will".
    "אני אדם עצמאי" is the closest translation, I believe.
     
  9. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    More generally speaking, how do you translate "own" like in "my own house" ?
     
  10. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    You might find it odd, but the way to do that is by doubling the possessive, one time with a suffix and the other with של. Using your example, my own house - ביתי שלי.
     
  11. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    So how about אני בן-אדמי שלי ?
    I think I know the answer ;).
     
  12. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    Actually, I've read somewhere that some nouns can't receive personal suffixes : משרד, מחשב, טלפון...
    If true, how would you say : my own office ?
     
  13. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    I wouldn't say can't, though it is quite funny to use personal suffixes on borrowed words. As for מחשב and משרד, I don't see any problem using these suffixes with them: משרדי שלי and מחשבו שלו.
     
  14. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    And אני בן-אדמי שלי ?
     
  15. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Well, I find the original phrase in English to be unique. How can you own or possess a person (not by enslavement)?
     
  16. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    It's no different in English. That's the magic of philosophy. Philosophy allows many things.
    Now, this shouldn't be an obstacle to translation.
    This makes me think of the other topic about החפצה. Why should concepts, wild or mild, be the prerogative of English ?
    And Hebrew, just that cumbersome spoken language, that you need to switch to English as soon as it's getting more complicated ? That just destroys 50+ years of repeated efforts of modernization...
     
  17. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    You can create single words, and thus concepts, in English (and other Romance and Germanic languages for instance) more easily than in Hebrew, because of two reasons, in my opinion: The basic vocabulary in English is far richer, and to that add the fact that compounding words, especially with prefixes and suffixes from Greek and Latin, and borrowing words from related languages is inherent to English.

    Let's take the word philosophy, for example. It is a borrowed compound word from Greek, whose meaning is the love of wisdom. Try compounding אהבה and חָכמה into one word. Now, you can turn it to a construct state - אהבת חכמה, but this poses a different trouble: how can you derive an adjective from it (philosophical)? Another option is to borrow philosophy as it is - פילוסופיה. Well, borrowing from the lingua franca has its own problems, especially from English into a root-based language, and it also raises questions about Niqqud: Do you put Dagesh at the beginning of the word (Pilosofya), as I have heard before? Luckily, in this case, the root ה-ג-י/ה was used to form the word הגות, but the wide majority of Hebrew speakers won't use it, because borrowing is far easier, let alone for non-native speakers.
     
  18. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    I never though about the fact you couldn't create an adjective based on a smikhut name... Unless you use as a smikhut in turn (שאלות תורת-חכמה). That said, I found one example of actual adjective based on a smikhut : ארץ-ישראלי. So what about a monstrosity like שאלות תורת-חכמתיות ? :D

    To go back to the initial topic : the point is to translate "I am my own person". This sentence contains no new *words*. The idea though, is new. Regardless, Hebrew should be able to express that. New *ideas* don't belong to English.
     
  19. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    אני עצמי
    works and thats it, end of story,finito (incantatem)
     
  20. Albert Schlef Senior Member

    Hebrew
    No, it's not "works and thats it".

    Suppose your mom tells you "Arielush darling, Arielush my dear little 19y/o baby, I've scheduled an appointment for you with the dentist for 16:00". Do you reply to her "Mom, אני עצמי!", or "Mom, אני מה שאני!" ?!

    No, you don't. It doesn't fit. Not because you possibly *are* a dear little baby but because these phrases don't quite convey the meaning of English's "I am my own person".
     
  21. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    And how does the reply - mom, i am my own person answers to that in English?
    anyhow
    אני גדול\בוגר\מבוגר\אחראי לעצמי
    is good enough
     
  22. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew
    אני ילד גדול can do in certain contexts. Idiomatic and doesn't mean that the speaker is really a kid.
     

Share This Page