I wish I would have tried harder

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by starbrst02, May 29, 2006.

  1. starbrst02 Junior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English, United States
    Come si tradurre:

    "I wish I would have tried harder"
    (Ho provato con questo: Spero che io provassi fare piu'.)

    Anche, con questa domanda, quando si usa l'infinito invece del verbo? Per esempio: Spero di vincere la partita--> I hope to win the game.
    Si puo anche dire?: Spero che io vinco la partita.
     
  2. MAVERIK

    MAVERIK Senior Member

    Tuscany
    Italy Italian
    My translation :

    "Avrei voluto provare a fare di più" .

    " Spero che io vinca la partita "
     
  3. erick Senior Member

    Los Angeles, California
    California, English
    Maverik, would «Spero di vincere la partita» also work?
     
  4. MAVERIK

    MAVERIK Senior Member

    Tuscany
    Italy Italian
    Yes, it also works
     
  5. sweet_cate

    sweet_cate Senior Member

    Bologna
    Italia
    Se parli o scrivi così ti fai capire, ma non è un buon italiano.

    Se esprimi un desiderio, un bisogno o una volontà di fare qualche azione devi sempre usare il verbo all'infinito.

    - spero di mangiare bene stasera.

    - mi auguro di passare una bella serata.

    - voglio andare al mare quest'estate.

    - desidero imparare meglio l'inglese.


    Se ti può esser do aiuto pensa al verbo che useresti in inglese con la formula "I' d like .........." dove ci va sempre il vostro verbo corrispondente al nostro infinito.
     
  6. sweet_cate

    sweet_cate Senior Member

    Bologna
    Italia
    La tua frase all'inizio è una delle più difficili per me da tradurre dall'italiano all'inglese.

    Perchè in italiano corrisponde per me a:

    "Mi sarebbe piaciuto / avrei dovuto insistere di più".

    E traducendo con "mi sarebbe piaciuto" io automaticamente cercherei di formulare la frase iniziando con "I'd like to" e non con:

    Il verbo WISH + il trapassato prossimo

    Questo tipo di costruzione della frase non mi viene in mente facilmente.

    Non so perchè.

    Prova:
    I wish I would have tried harder.
     
  7. erick Senior Member

    Los Angeles, California
    California, English
    Ciao Cate. Credo che sia più comune dire "I wish I'd tried harder" o "I wish I had tried harder" invece di "I wish I would have tried harder," una frase un po' "wordy." Cioè, una frase construita da troppe parole.
     
  8. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Scusa Erick, ma "I wish I would have tried harder" non è sbagliato?
    non dovrebbe essere solamente "I wish I had tried harder" in questo contesto?
     
  9. erick Senior Member

    Los Angeles, California
    California, English
    Paul, non sono sicuro che sia sbagliato (vediamo se un madrelingua inglese può confirmare o spiegare meglio), ma almeno direi che suona male. Per "first person singular" non userei "I wish I would have." Per second/third person si può dire per esempio, "I wish you would have (would've) told me that the meeting was canceled before I drove across town to attend it."
     
  10. sweet_cate

    sweet_cate Senior Member

    Bologna
    Italia
    Ciao erick e grazie.

    Provo adesso a memorizzare quest'altra formula che mi stai consigliando tu.

    I wish I'd tried harder.

    Ma ti assicuro che non è facile per me. :(
     
  11. silvietta

    silvietta Senior Member

    Lecce
    Italy-italian
    Ciao a tutti,
    spiegazione perfetta, vorrei fare solo una piccola precisazione.
    Nel caso in cui il soggetto della proposizione principale e della secondaria coincidano si usa l'infinito
    es:io voglio/desidero/mi auguro di.... vincere la partita di questa sera
    noi vogliamo vincere la partita...

    Nel caso in cui i due soggetti non coincidano si usa il congiuntivo
    es.: io voglio che Luca vinca la partita questa sera
    noi vorremmo che Giovanna venisse al mare con noi

    Silvietta
     
  12. Bex78

    Bex78 Senior Member

    Cremona
    Italian - Italy

    Ciao!!!
    anch'io mi ricordo qualcosa del tipo che con wish non si usa il would , ma il passato ...
     
  13. GavinW Senior Member

    Italy
    British English
    I believe there's a US/BR split on grammar on this construction.

    1) BrE and USE: I wish I'd tried harder
    2) USE (only): I wish I would have tried harder

    I've frequently heard 2), with its "excessive" use of "would", but only from the lips and pens of US people. Over the years I've come to believe it's a US variant.

    PS: Another translation suggestion: "Se solo avessi provato di più"
     
  14. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Agree (I would have used "would have," myself). E stavo per dire anche: magari se avessi provato di più. (Siamo sulla stessa lunghezza d'onda - si dice così anche in italiano??)
     
  15. Elisa68 Senior Member

    Italy Language:Italian
    Sì, si dice così.:)
     
  16. Alfry

    Alfry Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    It would be better if you swapped magari with se.

    "se magari ci avessi provato di più" but I would expect something more after, something like:

    "se magari ci avessi provato di più ci sarei riuscita"

    Anyway the first thing to come to my mind was Gawin's PS: "Se solo ci avessi provato di più/con più impegno"


    PS. yes, siamo sulla stessa lunghezza d'onda is perfect
     
  17. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Grazie A&E, due persone che sono spesso sulla mia stessa lunghezza d'onda. :D
     
  18. Sheila25 New Member

    UK
    English, United Kingdom
    "I wish I would have" is becoming increasingly common in the UK too - a result I expect of the influence of US TV! and irritates me nearly as much as "the Government are ..." !!!
     
  19. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    Starbrst, please do not write to unrelated questions in one thread next time. Here are our rules. :)

    Jana
     
  20. utente Senior Member

    California US
    American English
    Ciao Sheila-

    I always thought that the British say:

    the Government are...
    General Motors are...
    Microsoft are...

    and that Americans say:

    the government is...
    General Motors is...
    Microsoft is...

    Are you saying the opposite?

    --Steven
     
  21. Sheila25 New Member

    UK
    English, United Kingdom
    YES definitely. I may have assumed that "are" was another US import. I am delighted if you are telling me, Utente, that in the US "the government is" is commonly used.

    I think the problem is the assumption that, being a group of people/things (government, General Motors, Microsoft), the plural should be used, confused too by the use of the plural after "people" which appears to be singular but always takes a plural verb.
     
  22. utente Senior Member

    California US
    American English
    Sheila--

    Definitely the plural is BE, not AE, when referring to corporations. It always sounds wrong to me (the plural), but I see it as lift vs. elevator or braces vs. suspenders:) .

    --Steven
     
  23. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Several discussions of this in English Only seemed to conclude just the opposite, that is, BrE treats words like family and government as plural and AmE does not. Anyway, a google fight yields 27 million for "the government is" and only 112 for "the government are" (both in quotes, as shown),
     
  24. TrentinaNE Senior Member

    USA
    English (American)
    It may be a more common error in the U.S. ;) However, even on this side of the pond, I wish I had... is grammatically correct while I wish I would have... is not. Here's a site that explains the unreal past.

    Saluti,
    Elisabetta
     
  25. starbrst02 Junior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English, United States
    Despite how I worded my sentence, my main question is how one would form such a phrase, like the one I have given, when the subjects are the same in a sentence (using il congiuntivo) but the times are different. IE: I wish NOW that I had tried harder THEN.
     
  26. TrentinaNE Senior Member

    USA
    English (American)
    Ciao, starbrst. I find the "I wish..." construction in English to a tough one to translate literally to Italian. It might be more common to say something like Mi dispiace che io non abbia provato più. (I'm sorry that I didn't try harder.) Or perhaps it should be Mi dispiace di non aver provato più to follow the general rule that you don't use the subjunctive when the subject is the same in the secondary clause. But I'm surmising here, and will look forward to a more definitive answer from our native Italian friends!

    Elisabetta
     
  27. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Except for some side conversation about the English, there were several suggestions in reply to your initial question. Are none of the posts by maverick, gavin, alfry, etc. helpful?
     
  28. starbrst02 Junior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English, United States
    No no no, don't get me wrong. The responses to my original translation were most helpful. Now I am just trying to figure out if there is any rule that I could use for next time. For example, if I wanted to use il congiuntivo of the present (rather than l'indicativo) paired with an expression/wish/sentiment of the past, BUT BOTH INVOLVE THE SAME SUBJECT, how should I construct my sentence? For example:
    -I think I made a mistake.
    -I'm sorry I was late.
    -I wish I had known.

    Or is it just easier to reconstruct the sentence without "Penso che" or "Spero che" etc. So to say:
    -I'm sorry I was late---> Mi dispiace per essere stato in ritardo.
    -I wish I had known---> Magari se sapevo.
     
  29. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Grammar rules are not my strong suit, so I'll just point out that it needs to be Magari se sapessi in your last line.
     
  30. erick Senior Member

    Los Angeles, California
    California, English
    Elisabetta, thank you for this useful grammar resource, I've bookmarked the site.

    Cate, the site clearly explains the grammar rules that I attempted to lay out yesterday:

    The verb to wish

    The verb to wish is followed by an 'unreal' past tense when we want to talk about situations in the present that we are not happy about but cannot change:
    I wish I had more money (=but I haven't)
    • She wishes she was beautiful (= but she's not)
    • We wish we could come to your party (but we can't)

    Rest of the explanation can be found here: http://www.edufind.com/English/grammar/IF10.cfm


    NB: In accordance with this rule, the original sentence should have been "I wish I had tried harder," rather than "I wish I would have tried harder".

    By this rule you can say, "I wish you would've tried harder" (past) or "I wish you would try harder" (present).

    I hope that clarifies it a bit. Thank Elisabetta for the good explanation!

     
  31. TrentinaNE Senior Member

    USA
    English (American)
    The English meaning I associate with this construction is "If only I had tried harder," which sounds lamentative (wailing and gnashing of teeth ;) ). Instead, "I wish I had tried harder" can be a simple statement of fact. Does the Italian sentence above apply in both situations, with tone of voice indicating how much regret lies behind the words?

    Saluti,
    Elisabetta
     
  32. sweet_cate

    sweet_cate Senior Member

    Bologna
    Italia

    This is a very usuful and generous post indeed erick.

    Cercherò di "grave it" into my mind. :)

    I thank you so much, and Elisabetta too.

    Bye Erick. :)
     

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