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Ich lerne Deutsch ohne die Grammatik zu lernen

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by quesuerte, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. quesuerte

    quesuerte Senior Member

    Oxford English UK
    Hello all!

    Here's a question for native speakers! How does "Ich lerne Deutsch ohne die Grammatik zu studieren." sound in German? Is it ok to express like this or are there better ways?

    Thank you all! :)
     
  2. Henryk Senior Member

    Germany, German
    It's grammatical but you have to keep in mind that "studieren" means "studying at a university" in German. Moreover, you forgot to put a comma before "ohne" since it's an "Infinitivgruppe".

    You could simply say "Ich lerne Deutsch, ohne die Grammatik zu pauken." (pauken=colloquial) The sentence would imply that you don't learn German formally but rather just by speaking.
     
  3. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    I think, in this special case, you can say "studieren". I am not sure, but I did not see that it sounds wrong when I read it first.

    Generally, "studieren" refers to university. But it may be used for "untersuchen, kennenlernen" in some cases.

    Nobel studierte die Eigenschaften von Sprengstoffen und entwickelte Dynamit.

    "Pauken" means to learn and to learn without understanding it. It is more mechanically and it is a kind of slang. "Studieren" means in this case: "study and try to understand it."

    If you mean "to learn the grammar" than "studieren" is wrong.
     
  4. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Deutschland (Hamburg)
    German/Germany
    Ich lerne Deutsch, ohne mich mit Grammatik zu beschäftigen.

    Henryk's suggestion pauken is colloquial and does not really fit. I would not use the word studieren, which is a) to study at a university, or b) to do research/intensive study on a subject of interest. Obviously, neither meaning fits here.

    Kajjo
     
  5. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    I think, it depends on context. If I just do not want to learn grammar, than "ohne sich damit zu beschäftigen" is right. If I want to learn grammar but not intensively, than "ohne sie zu studieren" is right.

    In der Schule lernten wir am Anfang die russische Grammatik kennen, ohne sie aber gründlich zu studieren.

    In der Schule beschäftigten wir uns mit der russischen Grammatik, ohne sie aber gründlich zu studieren. Erst später studierte ich ihre Eigenheiten.
     
  6. Henryk Senior Member

    Germany, German
    Wieso passt es nicht? Ich gehe aufgrund der Muttersprache des Fadenerstellers davon aus, dass das englische "to study" gemeint ist, welches einfach "lernen" bedeutet. Und "Pauken" ist nichts anderes als intensiv etwas (auswendig) zu lernen, und das ist doch nun einmal gerade bei Grammatik der Fall. Aber wie gesagt ist es nur umgangssprachlich.

    Bei Google hat "Grammatik lernen" sehr viele Treffer, aber das würde doch keiner ernsthaft sagen, oder?
     
  7. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Deutschland (Hamburg)
    German/Germany
    Hm, ich finde es klingt ausschließlich nach Schule und dann auch noch nach Schülerjargon und Umgangssprache. Für mich hat es eine negative Konnotation, etwa wie "stupide lernen" oder "büffeln".

    Kajjo
     
  8. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    If you dislike grammar, both "büffeln" and "pauken" are right (negative connotation).
    If you just want to use another method of learning, "beschäftigen" and "lernen" are right in this context (neutral).
     
  9. Henryk Senior Member

    Germany, German
    Not necessarily, I wouldn't say it's negatively connotated at all. It's just casual language.
     
  10. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    "Pauken" has negative connotation for me, because it means, I have to learn and to learn, without understanding it. It is just poorly mechanically.
    "Büffeln" has negative connotation, because it means, that I learn and learn without considering anything other. It is a kind of mechanical learning, too. It means that I learn without doing more than learning. It might be positive in some cases.
     
  11. AGATHA2 Senior Member

    Wien, Austria
    german Austria
    Was findest du an " Grammatik lernen" seltsam ? Warum würde das niemand ernsthaft sagen ?
     
  12. Quelle

    Quelle Senior Member

    Deutschland Deutsch
    Ich bin ganz deiner Meinung, ich würde "Grammatik lernen" sagen.
     

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