idioma / lengua / lenguaje / dialecto

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by Woolley, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. Woolley

    Woolley Junior Member

    dunkirk, ny
    us, english
    Buenas tardes. Cualquiera podría decirme ¿cual es la diferencia fundamental entre “lengua,” “lenguaje,” “dialecto” e “idioma”?
    Creo que uno se los pone por este orden:
    idioma
    lengua
    lenguaje
    dialecto

    Como siempre, gracias.

    Moderator's note: two threads have been merged to create this one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  2. WillyLandron

    WillyLandron Senior Member

    English United States
    A language is a dialect with power behind it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  3. tigger_uhuhu

    tigger_uhuhu Senior Member

    mexico city
    spanish-mx ct
    Aquí una breve explicación, espero ayude.

    Idioma: Lengua hablada por una comunidad
    Lengua: Sistema lingüístico que se caracteriza por estar plenamente definido, por poseer un alto grado de nivelación, por ser vehículo de una cultura diferenciada y, en ocasiones, por haberse impuesto a otros sistemas lingüísticos
    Lenguaje: Conjunto de sonidos articulados con que las personas manifiestan lo que piensan o sienten.
    Dialecto: Variedad de una misma lengua adoptada en una zona geográfica concreta.

    Saludos
     
  4. joéquécaló Junior Member

    Boston
    USA- English
    Que es la diferencia entre lengua, lenguaje, y idioma? Lengua es sinomino con lenguaje o con dialecto?
     
  5. jairan

    jairan Senior Member

    Spain
    spanish Spain
    LENGUAJE:
    Facultad humana que permite la comunicación y la expresión del pensamiento: Una lesión cerebral puede impedir el desarrollo del lenguaje.
    2 Sistema utilizado por una colectividad para comunicarse, esp. referido al conjunto de sonidos articulados empleados por el ser humano: Está haciendo estudios sobre el lenguaje de las abejas. Un niño de un año aún no domina el lenguaje.



    LENGUA:
    Sistema de signos orales que utiliza una comunidad humana para comunicarse: Después de vivir varios años allí, llegó a dominar la lengua del país.

    IDIOMA:
    s.m.
    Lengua de un pueblo o nación: El idioma oficial de Francia es el francés.
    ETIMOLOGÍA: Del latín idioma, y este del griego idíoma (propiedad privada).



    DIALECTO:
    s.m.
    En lingüística, modalidad de una lengua en un determinado territorio: El andaluz y el canario son dialectos del español.
    ETIMOLOGÍA: Del griego diálektos (manera de hablar, lengua, dialecto).
    SEMÁNTICA: Dist. de idiolecto (modo característico en que cada hablante emplea su lengua).

    [​IMG]

    http://clave.librosvivos.net/
     
  6. Barbara S. Senior Member

    Lenguaje and idioma are synonyms in most contexts. There is an expression that goes: "a language (lenguaje) is a dialect with an army." So Portuguese is a language but Gallego (which is very similar to Portuguese) is sometimes called a dialect of Spanish. Some linguists say that both Spanish and Portuguese are modern dialects of Latin.

    On the other hand, we all speak in dialects of our language. Teenagers speak a dialect that uses the word "like" at the beginning of a phrase. What is called "standard" English or Spanish is considered by linguists to be the dialect of certain elites.
     
  7. jairan

    jairan Senior Member

    Spain
    spanish Spain

    Bárbara:¿no sería mejor hablar , en ese caso de la gente joven ,del "habla" propia de determinados colectivos o comunidades de hablantes o mejor aún "jerga" en lugar de dialecto? Habitualmente hablamos sólo de "dialecto" cuando nos referimos al gallego,catalán y estas lenguas derivadas ,según los manuales de Lingüística tradicionales,del castellano (entendiendo por dialecto cualquier lengua derivada de un tronco o familia común,ejemplo: el francés es uno de los dialectos del latín. )

    Según el mismo diccionario ,entre otras acepciones,se dice:
    HABLA:
    3 En lingüística, utilización individual que los hablantes hacen de la lengua: El habla es la realización del sistema lingüístico.
    4 En un sistema lingüístico, variedad propia de una comunidad, caracterizada por determinados rasgos peculiares o diferenciales: El habla de la zona norte de esta región es distinta del habla de la zona sur.


    JERGA
    s.f.
    1
    Variedad de lengua que usan entre sí las personas pertenecientes a un mismo grupo profesional o social: La jerga médica es difícil de entender si no eres médico. SINÓNIMO: argot
     
  8. rodsa Senior Member

    Spanish/Spain
    Permíteme unas pequeñas correcciones. Y "lengua" es sinónimo de "lenguaje", no de "dialecto" (el cual es una variante de otra lengua ya existente, pero no un idioma propiamente dicho).

    Saludos.
     
  9. Barbara S. Senior Member

    This may be an example of Spanish technical terms being different than English ones, as in the case of literature. "Post modernism" (post WW 2) in English is not the same as postmodernism (post WW I) in Spanish. In academic works on linguistics in English, Catalan and Gallego are considered languages equal to Castilian or Portuguese, not dialects. In fact, the dialect is often rejected as not being a useful descriptor. Also the argot of professionals is I think merely an expanded vocabulary. However, when people say "them there" for "those" they are not using slang but an accepted although not elite variation of English. Thus we speak of people from the Ozarks, for example, as speaking a regional dialect.
     
  10. rodsa Senior Member

    Spanish/Spain
    I don't understand why you said that: Gallego is considered in Spain a full language, not just a dialect, and it comes from Latin, not from Spanish (Castilian).

    Regarding the links between Gallego and Portuguese, sometimes you'll find both languages considered as the same one, because they share their roots, the "gallegoportugués" or "galaicoportugués". Notice that the cradle of Portuguese is Galicia, and until the 14th Century both languages were considered the same one, as the Portuguese Reconquista was going downwards, and the Portuguese took new "uses" (is that right?) from the Southern territories, which began to make up the standards for the new language, and thus differing from its fellow Northern language of Galicia.

    Saludos.
     
  11. Barbara S. Senior Member

    I agree with you. Gallego is not a "dialect" of Spanish, despite the more than 20,000 google hits for "gallego dialect". And Gallegos will tell you that their language is not a dialect of Portuguese either. As I mentioned above, the term "dialect" has been mostly jettisoned by academic linguists as being too fuzzy a concept to use in comparative linguistics. But linguists, like proscriptive grammarians, have no control over common usage. If a person on their website or blog says he sometimes "slips into the Gallego dialect when he speaks Spanish" we can't have him arrested. Furthermore, we all understand what he means. Ultimately, the diffence between language and dialect is the register of speech being used by the speaker and who the audience is.

    An analogous situation is the replacement of Spain's Golden Age ... with Spain's early modern .... or the term 3rd World which has been replaced with "post colonial", the latter terms are used by scholars the former the more common usage.
     
  12. BarsaUSA New Member

    USA, English, Spanish
    It always gets "heated" when we talk of dialect vs language. As a gallego (1/2) I'd also like to say that there was a Galicia long before a Portugal existed (btw, Lusitania is not Portugal. It's 1/3 or less of what is Portugal today.) If one "comes from" the other it really should be Portuguese from Gallego. But I digress: in reality there is no scientific difference between the 2 terms and the number of speakers is not very relevant (Latin today has very few speakers but it still is considered a language.)
    It's funny that Italians (especially in a America) call the regional language differences in Italy "dialects" whereas in Spain they're referred to as languages. And it's also funny to note that there's much more "regionalism" in Spain than there is in Italy.
     
  13. Barbara S. Senior Member

    Maybe it's because Italy wasn't unified as one country until the 19th century and unification was widely supported. Sardinians, however, speak a romance language that is totally different from Italian and never refer to their native language as a dialect, where as the Italian of Southern Italy is sufficiently close to the language of Northern Italy so that people can understand each other without translation. Perhaps it is similar to the difference between Australian English and American English.
     
  14. rodsa Senior Member

    Spanish/Spain
    I'm afraid I do not understand what you mean :eek:

    Saludos.
     
  15. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    As far as I know, those words are used as follows in Spanish:

    • lengua = idioma = Eng. "language" (except when it means "tongue", of course :p)
    • dialecto = Eng. "dialect"
    Lenguaje is a more difficult word to explain. It translates as "language", too, but Spanish normally makes a subtle distinction between it and lengua/idioma:

    • A lenguaje can be anything from a human spoken language, to a sign language, to a computer language, traffic signs, or musical notation. It's the broadest concept of "language" as any code for communicating. On the other hand, it can also designate a subset of a language, like a jargon, or a particular register. ("Don't you use that kind of language with me!")
    • A lengua/idioma is more specifically a human spoken language regarded as a unit.
    It's possible to use lenguaje with the same sense as lengua, but it's rarer and sounds bookish. (English speakers often fall for this trap.)
    The reverse is not true. It is not acceptable to designate the broader or narrower senses of lenguaje with lengua or idioma.
     
  16. rodsa Senior Member

    Spanish/Spain

    I don't agree with you: in Spain we have: 1) full languages (Castilian=Spanish, Catalan, Galician=Gallego and Basque); 2) not-so-full languages (Asturian-Leonese, Aragonese); 3) dialects (from Castilian: Andalusian; from Catalan: Valencian and Balearic; from Basque... well, here we can say that each valley has its own dialect, so that the Euskaltzaindia -Royal Academy of the Basque Language- had to "make up" the "Euskara Batua" ("Unified Basque"), setting up the standard for a common, cult usage), and; 4) local "hablas" (see above).

    Regarding the regionalism in Spain and Italy, that's true, but there are political issues beneath all of it, and I don't think this Forum is the right place to discuss it.

    Saludos.
     
  17. rodsa Senior Member

    Spanish/Spain
    Regarding the difference between American English and Australian English, although I'm not a scholar, I wouldn't call such differences as "dialects", but what we say in Spanish "habla" (sorry, I don't know an appropriate translation for it). We have similar differences between Mexican Spanish and Argentinian Spanish, for example.

    Saludos.
     
  18. joéquécaló Junior Member

    Boston
    USA- English
    '


    No, this makes perfect sense and I understand what you are saying. Even as a native English-speakers I was already aware of a distinction between the multiple uses of the term language, so it is good to know that the reason why Spanish has so many different terms for our one word is not because it is being redudant but because it is separating based on that fine distinction. good to know and thanks! ^^
     
  19. Peggy-Lynn Senior Member

    English
    I know this has been asked before, but I'm struggling to differentiate between the terms lengua/ lenguaje/ idioma.

    I'm writing a text about how war would still exist in a monolingual world, so I am often referring to language in ways like:
    'different languages are not the cause of war'
    'one, communal language would not guarantee understanding between all humanity'
    I think I would probably have used 'idioma' for both, but I've got a real bee in my bonnet about this now! Am I making it more complicated than it is?
    Thanks for any help :)
     
  20. greenheyes Senior Member

    Spain
    British English (Cheshire)
    I think that in this context you can use both lengua and idioma. I don´t think lenguaje fits very well.
     
  21. MGT747 Senior Member

    USA
    American English
    My personal understanding of lenguaje is that it refers to the type of words you use. Ex: Flowery language, bad language (cursing), etc.

    I agree with greenheyes.
     
  22. Eneko Senior Member

    Spanish, Spain
    Hi,

    I'd go mainly for "idioma" and would use also "lengua" as a secondary term so you don't repeat "idioma" many times in the text.
     

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