immer noch

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by neanderstln, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. neanderstln Junior Member

    I know that "immer noch" lays more emphasis on the frustration/impatience/surprise that something is still in a certain state than with only "noch".

    But I find it hard to understand how exactly you are supposed to interpret "immer" here. Is it something like "immer und noch" (was before and still is)? Or does it work more like for example "immer schneller"? Or in some other way?
  2. ablativ Senior Member

    "Ich bin immer noch der Meinung, dass ..." ---> I used to believe (in the past) and I still believe (at present) ---> I continue believing.
  3. neanderstln Junior Member

    Thank you!
  4. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    do you have more context?

    There are sayings like "Dazu gehören immer noch zwei!" It takes two to do that.

    Es kamen immer noch mehr.
    There came even more and more.

    Es kamen immer/jedesmal noch mehr. Every times there came even more.

    I think in some cases it depends on context and even if it is derived from ... in the past ... and now too,
    it may be that we do not think about past experiences.
  5. neanderstln Junior Member

    I don't have any context, I just generally find immer noch and noch immer confusing whenever I read or hear them (but not entirely sure why).

    I understand the above sentence fine.

    You could say that, in the above, immer modifies noch mehr. So in the below, could you say that noch modifies immer?

  6. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    I think with the intonation below it is one phrase and you cannot separate them.
    But I think "immer" modifies "noch".
    Es kamen noch mehr und noch mehr - it did not end, they continued coming.
    Additionally it has either a connotation of astonishment or of annoying.
  7. neanderstln Junior Member

    Is "noch immer" also one phrase regarding intonation? And does "immer" modify "noch" in "noch immer" as well?

  8. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Hi, it is a kind of set phrase and the stress is on "im": "noch immer".
    If you want to find a modifier here, it might be "noch".

    "Immer" means "always, constantly, every time, each time" (according to Babylon dictionary)

    "Noch immer" means "in the past until now and it is now happening yet."

    Ich gehe noch immer ins Kino.
    = I went into the cinema in the past and do continue with it at the present time. Depending on context it confirms an expectation ("Studierst du immer noch?" "Ja, ich studiere noch immer.") or a surprise "Du gehst noch immer dorthin?"
    So it sets the focus on past and present tense - but not on future - as "immer" (past, present tense, future, every time).
  9. neanderstln Junior Member

    Entschuldigung, ich verstehe immer noch nicht. Sorry, I still don't understand.

    There's a recording of this sentence on As usual, the stress is on "immer". However, there are (according to me) two interpretations of this "immer", and it is not clear to me which one is correct. Both seem to be possible sometimes.

    A. immer = was before. immer noch = "immer und noch" = was before and still is. This is how immer schon/schon immer works, as far as I understand.
    B. immer like in immer wieder, immer schneller, immer besser.

    Is it always A? Or is it actually something else? Ablativ answered A in his reply, but I'm not 100% sure he understood my question, as my first post was not very clear.

    Noch immer has basically the same meaning as immer noch as far as I can tell. B makes less sense to me in noch immer. But if it is A here, how do you tell these two sentences apart?

    Schlafwandelst du noch immer? Do you still walk in your sleep?
    Schlafwandelst du noch immer? Do you still always walk in your sleep?
  10. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    This is correct. But the second sentence is seldom used. I never heard it. Maybe this is because it is hard to pronounce and may cause misunderstandings with the first.
    I would rephrased it to
    Schlafwandelst du immer noch immerzu?

    The first is synonymous to "Schlafwandelst du immer noch?" but higher in style, more poetic, more old fashioned.

    The difference to "schon immer" is that "noch immer" is focussed at the end while "schon immer" is focussed at the beginning.

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