in making decisions, leaders are not conditioned by....

Discussion in 'English Only' started by farhad_persona, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. farhad_persona

    farhad_persona Senior Member

    Farsi
    Am I using condition [as a verb] correctly here?

    In making political decisions, leaders are not conditioned by their personal beliefs.
     
  2. Parla Senior Member

    New York City
    English - US
    That would be a rather unusual use of that verb, in my opinion. I'd say guided rather than "conditioned".

    And in the interests of factual accuracy, I'd add "always" (are not always guided by), since they often are thus guided.
     
  3. Schimmelreiter

    Schimmelreiter Senior Member

    Deutsch
    It's the correct verb in a psychological analysis.
     
  4. farhad_persona

    farhad_persona Senior Member

    Farsi
    How do you mean?
     
  5. Schimmelreiter

    Schimmelreiter Senior Member

    Deutsch
  6. farhad_persona

    farhad_persona Senior Member

    Farsi
    Does this make sense?

    In making political decisions, leaders are seldom guided by their personal beliefs.
     
  7. owlman5

    owlman5 Senior Member

    Colorado
    English-US
    The grammar certainly makes sense, farhad_persona. I don't believe the statement, but there's nothing wrong with your grammar. :)
     
  8. farhad_persona

    farhad_persona Senior Member

    Farsi
    gotcha;)
     
  9. lucas-sp Senior Member

    English - Californian
    Um, no it's not. It doesn't make sense to say that "personal beliefs" condition anyone, in behaviorist psychology. You could say that beliefs are conditioned​ by past experiences.
     
  10. Schimmelreiter

    Schimmelreiter Senior Member

    Deutsch
    TO's sentence: In making political decisions, leaders are not conditioned by their personal beliefs (possible continuation: ​but by past experiences, e.g. electoral victories and defeats).
     
  11. lucas-sp Senior Member

    English - Californian
    But still "conditioned" and "personal beliefs" don't work together, even in a negative sentence. It would be like saying that "Drivers are regulated not by cotton candy, but by traffic laws."
     
  12. mmafan67 Junior Member

    English- American
    as was said before, it's not really the word you're looking for. in it's place use ​influenced by
     
  13. farhad_persona

    farhad_persona Senior Member

    Farsi
    Can I put it like this:

    Politicians rarely make decisions on religious grounds.
     
  14. lucas-sp Senior Member

    English - Californian
    That's also a perfectly grammatical sentence - although, again, I'm not sure if I believe it!

    However...
    There are two questions here. Basically, "politicians" and "leaders who make political decisions" are not the same; and "religious grounds" and "the grounds of one's personal beliefs" are not the same.

    There are lots of leaders, who make political decisions, who are not politicians - union chiefs, the Pope, famous Hollywood-star activists, etc.

    There are "personal beliefs" that can influence decisions that are not religious - Libertarianism, Marxism, belief in the right to bear arms, feminism, belief in gay rights, etc.
     
  15. mmafan67 Junior Member

    English- American
    No that sounds like you're trying to tell people that politicians rarely visit churchs (or other 'religious grounds') to make their decisions. You could say:
    Politicians rarely base their decisions off of religious beliefs.
     
  16. lucas-sp Senior Member

    English - Californian
    I don't get that reading, mmafan. To me, the idea of "making a decision on religious/personal/professional/etc. grounds" is perfectly legible.

    Although you're right that the sentence could be read that way! And it is a very amusing idea.
     
  17. Schimmelreiter

    Schimmelreiter Senior Member

    Deutsch
    Isn't this not working together what makes an oxymoron? By saying, In making political decisions, leaders are not conditioned by their personal beliefs but by victories and defeats​, I ridicule the very idea that it might be otherwise.
     
  18. mmafan67 Junior Member

    English- American
    Well obviously I know what s/he's getting at because I'm a native speaker, but the way that phrase is supposed to be used is more like so:
    on the grounds that...
    i.e. "We will allow the game to continue, on the grounds that you do play too roughly."
    it's more to set the stage for a condition, in my opinion.
     
  19. lucas-sp Senior Member

    English - Californian
    Hmm... Well, to me, the phrase "on religious grounds" is very familiar. I compared it to "on moral grounds" and I see that they're about as popular to each other (graph here).

    I also poked around at some of the examples that come up there, and I can't find any examples in which "on religious grounds" actually means "while standing on property owned by a religious body."
     
  20. farhad_persona

    farhad_persona Senior Member

    Farsi
    I see your point. However, I didn't intend to equate personal beliefs with religious ones. I just wanted to see if I was using 'on grounds' correctly.
     
  21. mmafan67 Junior Member

    English- American
    I'm just saying that's not the way I would say it. And you wont find any direct translations for "religious grounds" as it is not an idiom. Simply put, the word grounds can describe the location of something (i.e. school grounds). By adding the adjective religious one may take it as a place with a religious theme.
     
  22. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    Whether or not it is true, and I suspect it is, it seems grammatical and idiomatic to me.
     
  23. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    This is not so. The noun "grounds" can also mean "reasons".

    "religious grounds" = religious reasons

    "Religious/racial/moral/ethical/etc., grounds" are all very common collocations.
     
  24. lucas-sp Senior Member

    English - Californian
    I absolutely concur.
     
  25. mmafan67 Junior Member

    English- American
    Yes, I know it may mean reasons, but I don't see it as being used correctly in that sense there. The reason is because of the preposition "on". By simply saying "on" it presents itself as a little awkward. it would be better to say
    Politicians rarely make decisions based on religious grounds.
     
  26. Parla Senior Member

    New York City
    English - US
    That would be very poor grammar ("off of" should be on)—and, as previously noted, factually questionable.
     

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