Intentar que alguien haga algo

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by Coolguy003, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. Coolguy003 New Member

    Español, España
    Hi! how would you say in English "intento que ellos me respeten"? How is the structure of this kind of sentences with the verb to try?
     
  2. fenixpollo

    fenixpollo Mod Chicken

    Arizona
    American English
    I try to get them to respect me.
    I am trying to get them to respect me.
     
  3. Coolguy003 New Member

    Español, España
    thank you! :)
     
  4. beyourself Senior Member

    españa español
    Hi!
    I have the following sentence: "Intentamos que aquellos que eligen la región para disfrutar de su tiempo de ocio regresen a sus hogares satisfechos".

    So, according to your answers the translation would be: " We try to get those people who choose the region to spend their free time to return home satified". Is it right? This doesn't sound good to me.

    Thank you in advance
     
  5. neal41 Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA, English
    Grammatically your sentence is OK, but stylistically it is not very good. In general modifiers should be as close as possible to the what they modify. I am not sure what the phrase 'to return home satisfied' is called but it is related to the verb 'get'. It is too far away from 'get'. In particular people spend their free time to achieve something. On a first reading it sounds as if 'to return home satisfied' is explaining why people are spending their free time. A possible solution:

    We try to get (those) people to return home satisfied who choose the region to spend their free time.

    Ideally 'who choose the region to spend their free time' should be close to 'people' as in your sentence, but in the real world you can't have everything. Another possibility:

    We try to get people who vacation in the region to return home satisfied.
     
  6. Spug Senior Member

    Then how did you come up with this, which not only contradicts the above recommendation, but sounds really awkward in AE?

    Would you really say or write that?
     
  7. elprofe

    elprofe Senior Member

    Benidorm (alicante)
    Spanish (Spain)
    Here are two more options:
    Our aim is that those people who choose the region to spend their free time return to home satisfied
    Our aim is to have those people who choose the region to spend their free time satisfied when they come back home

    Let's wait for native speakers to review my sentences :)
     
  8. neal41 Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA, English
    Ordinarily we say 'return home' rather than 'return to home', but that is a minor matter.

    A large part of my problem with beyourself's sentence was the presence of 'to' in front of the infinitive 'return'. That 'to' has to be there if we use 'We try to get those people . . .'. You have removed that problem very nicely by using 'Our aim is that . . .'. Now 'return' is a finite verb in subjunctive mode.

    Your second sentence is well formed and makes sense if I read it several times, but I think most readers would have difficulty the first time they read it. I tend to associate 'satisfied' with 'to spend their free time', whereas it should be associated with 'have'. We want to have them satisfied when they return home. In your sentence 'satisfied' is far away from 'have'.

    There is a stylistic problem routinely referred to by the term 'misplaced modifier'. One of the solutions is to place modifiers as close as possible to the thing that they modify.
     
  9. beyourself Senior Member

    españa español
    Thank you all for the answers, they are really usefull. But I have another question: Why can't I use "that" instead of "to get" with the verb TRY?

    For example: We try that those people who choose the region to spend their free time return home satified.

    I guess Try doesn't have the same connotation in Spanish.

    Thanks
     
  10. sound shift Senior Member

    Derby (central England)
    English - England
    This use of "try that" is a translation from Spanish. English does not use this construction.
     
  11. neal41 Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA, English
    Some verbs in English have to be followed by an infinitive. "We want him to go". Ordinarily 'want' is not followed by a clause introduced by 'that'. We would not say *"We want that he go". Other verbs admit both constructions. "We desire that he go" or "We desire him to go". There are probably other verbs that require a 'that' clause. I don't think of an example at the moment.

    Remember that 'tratar de' is routinely followed by an infinitive. "Tratamos de persuadirle a que . . ." or "Tratamos de motivarle a que . . .".
     
  12. Aereen New Member

    Castellano España
    A la hora de plantear el mismo tipo de oración en negativo, tengo una duda: ¿Sería correcto "she tries to get me to not tell it" para decir "ella intenta que yo no lo note"? Gracias de antemano.
     
  13. neal41 Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA, English
    Your sentence is well formed and correct. 'not' can also precede 'to'. "She tries to get me not to tell it."
     
  14. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    "Note" can't be "tell", as far as I'm concerned. The sentence should be "she tries/she's trying to stop/keep me from noticing it".
     
  15. neal41 Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA, English
    I agree that 'tell' is the wrong verb. I was paying attention only to the form of the English sentence and not to the Spanish sentence being translated. However, in order to make minimal changes to the sentence that Aereen asked us about, it is sufficient to change 'tell' to 'notice'. Either of the following two sentences is correct and well formed:

    She tries to get me to not notice it.

    She tries to get me not to notice it.
     
  16. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    But I think we have a problem of logistics here. How do you "get" someone "not to (to not??!!) notice something" without them noticing!
     
  17. Aereen New Member

    Castellano España
    Thank you both, JennyTW and Neal41, I thought I could use "tell" as in the expression "You can tell that..." but I'll use "notice". What I didn't understand is this:

    What do you mean? Thank you for your help.
     
  18. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    If you say "she tries to get me to...." then it means she wants me to do something actively. But if the thing she wants me to do is NOT notice something, then that would be difficult to achieve as she's already attracted my attention. With the Spanish sentence we haven't got this problem because there is no equivalent of "get" - it reads "ella intenta que yo no lo note"
    I can't see a way of translating this without a verb after "try", which is why I suggested "she's trying to stop me from noticing it", because it involves no active participation on my part. But an alternative could be "she's trying to make sure I don't notice it".
    Is that any clearer?
     
  19. Aereen New Member

    Castellano España
    I know understand. As you say, in Spanish we haven't got this problem, so as I think in Spanish I couldn't see it. I will write "She tries to stop me from noticing it". Thank you very much.
     
  20. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    When you say "ella intenta que yo no lo note" are you referring to something she often does, or just to one occasion? What's the context?
     
  21. Aereen New Member

    Castellano España
    Is just one occasion. The whole sentence is "está asustada, pero intenta que no lo note".
     
  22. inib

    inib Senior Member

    La Rioja, Spain
    British English
    Here's an alternative: She's frightened, but she's trying not to show it. It's not perfect, because it doesn't specify that she's hiding the fact from me, but it sounds more natural than the previous tries, I think. If it's just one occasion, the present continuous sounds better to me. (I imagine that is why Jenny asked the question.)
     
  23. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    I think you nailed it there! That would be the natural equivalent.

    Yes, that's why I asked, but without more context (which would also help to see if "me" is vital or not), it could still be a past incident related in the present simple, rather than the present continuous.
     
  24. inib

    inib Senior Member

    La Rioja, Spain
    British English
    True, you've got a point there.
     
  25. juan2937 Senior Member

    Spanish
    Jenny I wonder if the sentence can also be phrased as :

    She's frightened, but she's trying not to(be).

    Thanks
     
  26. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    That's a correct sentence but it changes the meaning a bit too much.
     
  27. Aereen New Member

    Castellano España
    It's a good alternative. In the original Spanish text I wrote the main character is the narrator and the action is happening at the moment, so present continous will be better, but I almost forgot it beacause I tend to sound strictly as the original. The two characters are alone so is not necessary to specify "me" in the sentence, despite it was in the original. I wanted it to sound well for a native speaker, that's why I posted it here, and maybe it don't have to be so close to the original. Thank you all.
     
  28. juan2937 Senior Member

    Spanish
    In Spanish = to get me to :Es conseguir/lograr que yo...
    Try= intenta /trata de evitar que yo lo note.
     

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