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Internet

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by ElaineG, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. ElaineG

    ElaineG Senior Member

    Brooklyn NY
    USA/English
    Non capisco - è l'internet, e mi sembra che "di + l'' sia "dell' ". Puoi spiegarmi il mio errore? Grazie!
     
  2. Drusillo

    Drusillo Senior Member

    Stuttgart- Germany
    Italian-Italy
    Non è l'Internet, ma semplicemente Internet, senza articolo...

    Per esempio: Internet è una risorsa utilissima per effettuare ricerche...
    Mi piace navigare in Internet!

    Ciao
     
  3. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Hi!
    In Italian Internet (more and more written as internet) is a proper name; so no article in front of it.

    I pericoli della rete (internet in this context)
    I pericoli di Internet

    Uinni
     
  4. ElaineG

    ElaineG Senior Member

    Brooklyn NY
    USA/English
    OK, ma non c'è una spiegazione? (Devo dirti che i miei amici italiani dicono sempre "navigare sull'internet" e l'ho imparato così. Sicuramente sono sbagliati (nessun di loro ha mai visto internet :))).

    Vorrei capire perché "internet" è senza articolo. Grazie mille.


    Grazie, Uinni, non ho visto il tuo intevento; it's a proper noun (there's a few schools of thoughts on this in English, but we tend to capitalize it, so I guess we mostly treat it as a proper noun)
     
  5. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    I cannot believe you have Italian friends who use the article in front of Internet! It sounds quite odd.

    Being a foreign word, it is easier for us to treat it as a proper noun :)

    Uinni
     
  6. ElaineG

    ElaineG Senior Member

    Brooklyn NY
    USA/English
    Uinni, I learned 100% of my Italian in a small town in Sicily (and from reading novels, often 19th century ones, and TV) -- I find that I learned a lot of idiosyncrasies when I speak with the wider world :)
     
  7. walnut

    walnut Senior Member

    Italy
    Italy - Italian
    It can sound quite odd, I agree; I heard it used several times among snobish internet geeks (spoken language, jargon) in Milano.
     
  8. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australia
    Australian English
    I have friends from Milan who use the article. So it's not just in Sicily.
     
  9. DAH

    DAH Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    USA/California--English
    A couple of rules from Italian Grammar, 2nd Edition by J. Germano, Ph.D. and C. Schmitt and Ciao!, Fifth Edition, by C. Federici and C. Riga

    The definite article is also required with:
    a) nouns used in a general or an abstract sense, whereas in English it is often omitted; and
    b) names of languages, except when immediately preceded by the verb parlare or with the preposition di or in.
     
  10. AlxGrim

    AlxGrim Senior Member

    Roma, Italy
    Italy, Italian
    I guess it depends on whether you consider "Internet" as a proper name (no article) or just as a synonym (or the "full name", if you prefer) of "the Net". In this case it's not weird to say "l'Internet", just like you say "la Rete".
     
  11. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    We are talking about a "proper noun", not a common noun. As Internet is considered a proper noun, the article is not used.

    Uinni
     
  12. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    L'internet is just a colloquial expression, often related to the use of dialect, but not only. I would hear it from someone who is not familiar with it:

    Tu e l'internet...
     
  13. fredericks Senior Member

    Sciacca
    Italian
    I've never heard l'Internet or sull'Internet, in any situation, and it sounds pretty ankward. Who said we use that in in Sicily?:confused:
     
  14. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    I am baffled. Where am I living in? I work in IT and have "e-illiterate" friends and yet I have never heard the article before Internet (needless to say I have never heard it on TV -where you do hear some blunders!)


    Uinni
     
  15. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    I guess the problem with us is that we ALL know what internet is and how to use it! And we would never use the definite article.
     
  16. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Some creativity at times doesn't harm :D
     
  17. ElaineG

    ElaineG Senior Member

    Brooklyn NY
    USA/English
    I googled sull'internet and dell'internet, and it looks that there are thousands of examples of this version out there, incorrect though it may be.

    So, uinni, you should just be grateful that all your friends speak such flawless Italian ;)
     
  18. Drusillo

    Drusillo Senior Member

    Stuttgart- Germany
    Italian-Italy
    Google: if you put "dell'internet" = 167'000 results
    "di internet" = 1'890'000 results.

    The error is around 8%, acceptable!:D

    Too much engineer:rolleyes: :cool:
     
  19. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    My dear. Please be careful when you check for things by google, because you may include also things like "il sito dedicato all'internet relay chat" or "Gli internet provider" (an so on) in which the article is required for there "Internet" is used as an adjective.

    Anyway, reading this thread I realized that to my dismay there are people who use the article...

    Uinni
     
  20. fredericks Senior Member

    Sciacca
    Italian
    Well, I found sentences like SULL'INTERNET ITALIANO, I think in these cases the article or the preposition could be used, when there is the adjective, too.

    I also found "l'internet dei poveri". When you further specify the word Internet, you could use the article...

    What do you think uinni?
     
  21. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Well, there it is used as an adjective!
    It sort of understands the "net delimiter": it should be (re-)phrased as "sul segmento Internet Italiano"/"sulla sottorete italiana di Internet" (or the like). But people are lazy...

    I think I could explain you the usage of the article by the following example:
    "Marco è un bravo ragazzo. Luigi non lo sarebbe ma il Marco che c'è in lui ne tempera un po' il carattere".

    :)

    Uinni
     
  22. fredericks Senior Member

    Sciacca
    Italian
    yes! that's a perfect example....but I'm afraid somebody would say as elaine posted, lilke "navigare sull'internet":eek:
     
  23. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Well, I learn (from this thread) that there is already somebody saying that...

    Uinni
     
  24. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    It's more idiomatic in this sentence to say "doesn't hurt."
     
  25. kitten Senior Member

    Como, Italy
    Italian, Italy
    How do you translate "in/su internet" in english?
    Which is the best preposition: in or on?
     
  26. virgilio Senior Member

    English UK
    fredericks,
    Re:" I also found "l'internet dei poveri". The article appears here, surely, because of the adjectival phrase "dei poveri", whereas it would not, it seems, if that adjectival phrase were not there.

    Virgilio
     
  27. virgilio Senior Member

    English UK
    ElaineG,
    The same thing has happened over recent years to Ravel's "Bolero" and Handel's "Messiah". While they were both considered as - admittedly famous - extensions of their respective composers, they were called "The Bolero" and "The Messiah". Nowadays - at least here in the UK - they 'exist' in their own right and are given the appropriate titles "Bolero" and "Messiah". They have become celebrities, no less!
    An interesting difference - this one about the internet - between Italian and English, and one of which I was hitherto unaware.
    Thank you.
    Virgilio
     
  28. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    In AE "on" is the most common: I bought it online, I read about it on the Internet, I found the definition on the web...
     

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