ir e venir, traer y llevar

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by lysa, Jun 25, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. lysa New Member

    Italy-Italian
    alguien puede explicarme la diferencia entre IR e VENIR y TRAER y LLEVAR?

    MUchas gracias,

    lysa
     
  2. mhp Senior Member

    American English
    Es en la dirección de movimiento. Si tienes algunas frases, a lo mejor podemos ayudarte mejor.
     
  3. aceituna

    aceituna Senior Member

    Leiden (Netherlands)
    Madrid (España) - castellano
    VENIR, TRAER -> el movimiento es en la dirección en la que está la persona que habla.

    IR, LLEVAR -> el movimiento es en una dirección alejada de la persona que habla.
     
  4. alepsi

    alepsi Junior Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina (español)
    Me parece que otra diferencia es que "ir y venir" se refiere a una persona (voy y vengo constantemente) y "traer y llevar" se refiere a un objeto (se dedica a traer y llevar chismes).
     
  5. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Imagínese que yo estoy en Madrid y usted está en Roma. ;)

    Si me desplazo a Roma, digo que voy a Roma. Si conmigo vay mi hermana, digo que llevo a mi hermana conmigo.
    Si usted se desplaza a Madrid (mientras yo me quedo en Madrid), digo que viene a Madrid. Si con usted viene su hermano, digo que trae su hermano con usted.

    Espero que lo ayude. :)
     
  6. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    Here is what I wrote in my grammar about this topic:

    “BRING & TAKE” - “COME & GO”
    One of the most common mistakes English Speakers make is in differentiating in Spanish between “traer” (bring) and “llevar” (take); and between “venir” (come) and “ir” (go). In English we blend them almost interchangeably as most of us forget the differences we learned in grade school. For the Spanish-speaker there is only one way to understand these... “Bringing” and “Coming” are always referring to movement toward the speaker’s present location (actually or by the speaker envisioning themselves already in the location even if not actually there). “Taking” and “Going” always refer to a moving away from the speaker’s location or movement between other people/things from the speaker’s perspective... There actually exists this same grammatical distinction in English but it has been almost completely lost in everyday speech. In Spanish the verbs used below are mandated but English has the noted flexibility.

    --Be sure to bring me your pictures. [other-->speaker] Asegúrate de traerme tus pinturas.
    --Please take/bring this to your sister. [speaker-->other]
    Por favor lleva esto a tu hermana.
    --I reminded her to bring/take it there. [other-->other]
    Le recordé que lo llevara allá.
    --I want you to come here soon. [other-->speaker]
    Quiero que vengas acá pronto.
    --When would we go/come home? [speaker-->other] ¿Cuándo iríamos a casa?
    --Did the supervisor come/go late last night? [other-->other] ¿Fue la supervisora tarde anoche?
     
  7. lazarus1907 Senior Member

    Lincoln, England
    Spanish, Spain
    Una regla sencilla de recordar:
    • Los verbos ir y llevar no pueden usarse normalmente con "aquí".
    • Los verbos venir y traer implican que el destino es "aquí".
    Estas reglas no son matemáticas, porque el idioma es demasiado complejo y hay que tener en cuenta muchos factores. Por ejemplo, puede decirse "voy aquí", mientras se señala con el dedo un punto en el mapa; ese punto que se está tocando en el mapa es "aquí" para el hablante, pero el lugar al que se pretende ir claramente no es "aquí".

    La distinción no tiene nada que ver con personas, animales o cosas.
     
  8. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    Muy útil, Laz. Y bien dicho. Gracias.
     
  9. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    I'm not sure, but I seem to recall a discussion here in the forum where people argued that the English distinction between to go / to take and to come / to bring (which seems to be the same as in German) is focused on the destination, rather than on the speaker -- or something to that effect.
     
  10. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    Be that as it may -- English speakers use them interchangably in so many settings that it's a nightmare for a foreigner to learn; much less take over into Spanish. If I had a dime for every time an English speaker uttered "¿Vendrás esta noche?" when referring to going to a common place that the speaker and listener were both going (not the location they both were in now) -- I'd be a rich man. In Spanish this has to be ¿Irás/Vas esta noche?.. :) When two people are going to a 3rd party destination -- that can be 'come' in English , I guess because we already see ourselves 'at' the location.
     
  11. Jellby

    Jellby Senior Member

    Spanish (Spain)
    You can also say "¿Vendrás esta noche?" in Spanish, but not as happily as in English.

    If the speaker sort of invites the listener to come with him somewhere else, he can say "¿Vendrás esta noche?"

    If, however, the speaker and the listener might go independently somewhere else, and especially if the speaker is not really sure to go, he should say "¿Irás esta noche?"
     
  12. Z a z a

    Z a z a Junior Member

    Mexico, spanish
    Ir es desplazarse a otro lugar diferente a donde el que habla está ahora.
    Venir significa que alguien más se desplace a donde el que habla está.

    Llevar es desplazarse a otro lugar, pero cargando un objeto.
    Traer significa que alguien más cargue un objeto a donde el que habla está.

    Éstas son las diferencias básicas, pero como todos los demás han dicho: hay que tomar en cuenta variantes, contexto y formas de hablar.
     
  13. wunderkind Junior Member

    from South Florida, United States
    English, United States

    Let me test if I understand the venir/ir rules properly. If I want to say, "I hope more people come [to my house] this evening", it should be "espero que mas gente venga [a mi casa]" because the speaker is currently situated at his/her house, and the movement must be towards the speaker.

    HOWEVER, if I want to say "Ï hope more people come [to the restaurant tonight]", it should be "espero que mas gente vaya [al restaurante]" because the place is away from the speaker, and the movement must be away from the speaker?

    Or should it still be "espero que mas gente venga [al restaurante]" because the speaker's location is now considered to be at the future location [the restaurant] and thus the movement is towards the speaker??


    ¡Ayudame por favor!

    :{
     
  14. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    We must distinguish between two situations:

    1. The speaker is at or near his house, or the restaurant.

    "I hope more people come [to my house / the restaurant] this evening"
    Espero que vengan más personas esta noche. (venir)
    2. The speaker is far away from his house, or the restaurant.

    "I hope more people come [to my house / the restaurant] this evening"
    Espero que vayan más personas esta noche. (ir)
     
  15. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    Yes, Wunder.. YOu have it exactly. But as Outsider has also pointed out the issue is the proximity of the destination to the speaker. But also where the speaker envisions himself.

    If the others are moving toward the speaker's relative location -- it is 'venir'. If the others are moving to a point away from the speaker's relative location then it's 'ir' , though English still allows 'come' for that too. Spanish has to make the distinction.

    As to the 'envisioning' thing I said.. If the speaker knows that he's going to be with a friend tonight at a place far from his house and he's on the phone with that friend but still at his own house. He could utter -- Pidamos que Arturo venga también. Because in that instance the speaker already envisions himself at his friend's house even though he's not there yet.

    Grant
     
  16. Jeromed Banned

    USA, English
    This is the way I see it:

    Venir/Traer -- From there to here
    Ir/Llevar -- From here to there, from there to over there

    The point of view is the speaker's.
     
  17. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    That's exactly how I teach it almost verbatim. :) In English there's greater flexibility with 'come' and 'bring' but not the other two.
     
  18. Felicetta Senior Member

    USA, English
    Bueno, si alguien quiere decir "Wait, I'm going to bring the car around" ¿cómo diría esto? Es decir que el hablante va a sacar su carro del estacionamento y luego lo llevará/traerá al sitio donde está la otra persona para recogerla.

    Esperate que voy a traer el carro ? or

    Esperate que voy a llevar el carro ?

    Gracias
     
  19. Pinairun

    Pinairun Senior Member

    Espera, voy a traer el carro.

    Se dice "traer" porque lo va a trasladar al lugar donde él se encuentra en el momento en que habla.
     
  20. Rosa 956 Senior Member

    English U.S.A.
    Anothe wrinkle- discuss llevar vs tomar. You can "tomar" objects, right?
    And I've got a few other questions too!
    Rosa
     
  21. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    You should probably start another thread for that one. The moderators here like the topics to stay succinct.

    You can llevar and tomar objects. Tomar emphasizes the 'clutching' aspect like 'get'. 'He got a book off the shelf' would use 'tomar' ('coger' in Spain).

    'Llevar' emphasizes the movement from one place to another of something.

    So you don't 'tomar' your parents to the airport - you 'llevar' them.

    And you don't 'llevar' a book from the shelf - you 'tomar/coger' it.

    That's a big oversimplification -- but it'll get you started and have you saying/writing the correct thing most of the time.

    Grant
     
  22. Rosa 956 Senior Member

    English U.S.A.
    Thank you very much. That was helpful. You're a good teacher. Regards, Rosa
     
  23. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    Thanks, Rosa. Glad to help. Go to the wordreference dictionary here at this website and look up both words. You'll see the myriad of ways they're used in Spanish -- but each of them are generally as I shared.

    Chao,
    Grant
     
  24. meximama Junior Member

    English
     
  25. fenixpollo

    fenixpollo Mod, I say, Moderator

    Arizona
    American English
    This thread has been closed because questions without context are no longer allowed in this forum. The person who asks the question must give us a sample sentence and background information, so that we can use it as a starting point.

    Thank you for helping us keep the forum organized.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page