Is a U.S. citizen, a U.S. national, or a lawful permanent resident

Discussion in 'Legal Terminology' started by Singinswtt11, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. Singinswtt11

    Singinswtt11 Senior Member

    Bay Area, California
    English since birth, Spanish shortly thereafter
    Hello!

    The following is from a list a eligibility requirements to be a volunteer. I'd like some help with the bold text please!

    Requerimientos mínimos de elegibilidad:

    1. Is a U.S. citizen, a U.S. national, or a lawful permanent resident of the United States.



    Mt attempt:

    1. Ser ciudadano de EEUU, ... o residente permante de Estados Unidos.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. 3l1kl0X

    3l1kl0X Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano - España
    Your translation is correct... btw I'm resident of the USA
     
  3. Singinswtt11

    Singinswtt11 Senior Member

    Bay Area, California
    English since birth, Spanish shortly thereafter
    Thank you. But what about the translation of "US national"?
     
  4. Se está diferenciando un ciudadano de un nacional de un residente. Una cosa es tener la ciudadanía, otra es haber nacido en el país y otra es tener derecho de residencia (pero sin ciudadanía)
     
  5. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    "ciudadano de los EEUU, nacido en los EEUU, residente permanente en/de los EEUU"

    (no entiendo el orden - sería mejor ir de más a menos, no?)

    saludos
     
  6. En ese orden están en la pregunta.
     
  7. Moritzchen Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    Spanish, USA
    From Wikipedia:


    According to 8 U.S.C. § 1408, it is possible to be a U.S. national without being a U.S. citizen. A person whose only connection to the U.S. is through birth in an outlying possession (which as of 2005 is limited to American Samoa, Swains Island, and the unincorporated US Minor Outlying Islands), or through descent from a person so born, acquires U.S. nationality but not U.S. citizenship. This was formerly the case in only four other current or former U.S. overseas possessions[24]
    Not all U.S. nationals are U.S. citizens; all U.S. citizens are U.S. nationals. The U.S. passport issued to non-citizen nationals contains the endorsement code 9 which states: "THE BEARER IS A UNITED STATES NATIONAL AND NOT A UNITED STATES CITIZEN." on the annotations page.[27] Noncitizen U.S. nationals may reside and work in the United States without restrictions, and may apply for citizenship under the same rules as resident aliens.
    Like aliens, U.S. nationals who are not citizens are not prevented from voting in state and federal elections by the federal government, but are not allowed by any U.S. state to vote in federal elections.
     
  8. Scheieian Senior Member

    Seattle, WA
    US English
    If I say 'ciudadano estadounidense,' does that imply the person was born in the U.S.?
     
  9. Rubns

    Rubns Senior Member

    Extremadura/Spain/EU
    Español - Spanish (Spain)
    Legally, yes.
     
  10. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    No, it could mean they were born anywhere, but came here, lived many years in this area, did a lot of paperwork, and became citizens (legally, I hope, like us). Of course, if you were actually born here, you are a 'ciudadano estadounidense'.
     
  11. Mirlo

    Mirlo Senior Member

    Missouri
    Castellano, Panamá/ USA

    Para traducer US National me parece= Nacionalidad estadounidense o con nacionalidad americana
     
  12. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    Ser ciudadano de los EEUU, ser ciudadano natural de los EEUU, ser residente legal en los EEUU.

    a) nacido en los EEUU o de padres ciudadanos de los EEUU.
    b) adquirir la ciudadanía haciendo los trámites después de años de vivir en los EEUU. Podés votar pero no ser candidato a presidente.
    c) tener 'tarjeta verde' - todos los derechos pero no podés votar.

    (¿Por qué no ponés esta pregunta en el foro especializado en abogacía?)
     
  13. Mirlo

    Mirlo Senior Member

    Missouri
    Castellano, Panamá/ USA
    Con todo respeto, te contesto:

    No pueden votar por que una residencia no es una cosa permanente aunque asi parezca, por ejemplo, si cometes una felonia te la pueden quitar. Pero la parte mas importante es que hay que tomar un juramento antes de votar:
    Antes de tomar este juramento, se considera que la residencia permanente (y ciudadano de otro país) para mantener "la lealtad y la fidelidad" a un "príncipe extranjero, potentado, estado o soberanía". Como las elecciones en los EE.UU. son para el propósito de elegir líderes de Estados Unidos y la decisión política de los EE.UU., la existencia de una/ otra lealtad a una potencia extranjera se considera inaceptable por el conflicto de intereses inherente.

    :)
     
  14. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    No entiendo a qué estás contestando. La 'residencia permanente' es la 'tarjeta verde', ¿no? con eso no se puede votar.. Para votar hay que ser/hacerse ciudadano naturalizado o ser simplemente ciudadano por nacimiento en los EEUU, o por padres de por acá.
    La pregunta era sobre "US National', o al menos, así entendí lo que se preguntaba.
     
  15. Mirlo

    Mirlo Senior Member

    Missouri
    Castellano, Panamá/ USA
    Lo siento, yo pensaba que alguien habia preguntado por que un residente permanente no puede votar.
    Pero, lo voy a dejar en caso de que alguien quiera saber.
    :)
     
  16. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    Ah, bueno. La duda era traducir "U.S. Natural" y es posible que eso sea 'ciudadano naturalizado' o algo parecido en español. (No sé si en cada país hay un nombre distinto).
     
  17. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    Anyone who is a "US citizen" is a US citizen, whether by birth or by naturalization. There's no distinction. "US national" seems to be a rather specialized category for people from places like American Samoa or Swain Island, whatever that is.
     
  18. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    US natural/native/citizen/national/naturalized = US citizen

    The only difference is if you are naturalized you can never be the US president, whereas if you were born outside the US from US parents, you have to live a minimum of 14 consecutive years in the US, in order to run for president.

    That's my understanding.
     
  19. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    Post #7 above describes what it means to be a "US national" which apparently is not the same as being a US citizen. US 'nationals' are people from American Samoa or from a place called Swains Island which apparently has about 10 inhabitants or from a few other very tiny islands. Except for the single presidency requirement, there is no distinction between someone who is a naturalized citizen and someone who is a citizen by birth. In terms of translation, I would suggest simply ignoring the "US national" phrase and just translating the part about US citizens and legal permanent residents.
     
  20. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    But there should be a word(s) for US national! I don't think skipping it is what a translator could/should do...
     
  21. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    In this context, it seems to be a technical term, not an ordinary term. It does not mean someone who is a naturalized citizen, nor does it mean someone who is a citizen by birth. This is just from a list of requirements to be a volunteer, so it doesn't seem all that important. If by chance someone from American Samoa shows up, they can probably deal with it. I don't see how you could really translate it. Since presumably the translation is aimed at Spanish speakers, and someone from American Samoa isn't likely to be a Spanish speaker anyway, I would still suggest leaving it out.
     
  22. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    You are right. I read the law and then I looked up in Merriam-Webster and it offers this definition:

    : one that owes allegiance to or is under the protection of a nation without regard to the more formal status of citizen or subject
     
  23. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    You could translate the concept of "US national" but it might take an entire sentence or two to explain what it means. Since for this purpose (eligibility to volunteer), it is quite unlikely that there are any Spanish speakers who need to understand this anyway, it just doesn't seem worth it to go to the effort required to explain this odd little category. I never heard of it myself until this thread came up!
     
  24. DrMiguel01 Senior Member

    Louisiana, USA
    Latin American Spanish
    Dear Singinswtt11,

    After reading all the answers, allow me to return to the original question, and add my grain of sand,

    As I understand the sentence, and the context, this is how I would translate it.

    1. Es ciudadano de los EE.UU., ha nacido en los EE.UU, o es residente permanente en los Estados Unidos.

    Have a great day!
     
  25. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    I don't think that is the right answer. A "US national" is NOT someone born in the US. In fact, if they were born in the US they would be a "US citizen." A "US national" is a very special category that only applies to people from a few places like American Samoa, which is NOT part of the US.
     
  26. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    Agreed! how about:

    1. Es ciudadano de los EE.UU., ha nacido en territorio de los EE.UU, o es residente permanente en los Estados Unidos.
    (let 'em figure it out once they've read it. For people from Guam speaking Chamorro...)

     
  27. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    The Guamanians and Puerto Ricans, though born in territories, are US citizens by birth. Maybe some day we will have a Guamanian president! The only 'nationals' are from American Samoa, or Swains Island, which seems to be close to uninhabited, or the minor outlying islands, except those really are uninhabited.
     
  28. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    Complicada la historia (Wiki vale la pena para esto): Son ciudadanos pero como no es un estado, no pueden votar! (confuso, ¿no?)

    After the war, the Guam Organic Act of 1950, established Guam as an unincorporated organized territory of the United States, provided for the structure of the island's civilian government, and granted the people U.S. citizenship. Since Guam is not a U.S. state, U.S. citizens residing on Guam are not allowed to vote for president and their congressional representative is a non-voting member.[11]
     
  29. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that a Guamanian who lives in the US is a regular US citizen and can vote in the state where they live, but someone born in the US who lives on Guam can't vote. So it's not a difference in citizenship but rather a difference in residence.
     
  30. Gabriel Senior Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina / Español
    No, era "U.S national", no "U.S. natural".

    Mi propuesta:

    1. Ser ciudadano de Estados Unidos, tener nacionalidad estadounidense, o ser residente permante legal. (legal = lawful, una de las palabras en negrita en la pregunta original)
     
  31. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    That sounds good to me! And this has been an interesting journey into the world of "US nationals" which I knew nothing about before this.
     
  32. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    That's so weird. I you go to Guam, Could you vote there through some government dept.?
     
  33. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    Any US citizen who is a resident of Guam or of Puerto Rico can't vote in presidential elections. Any US citizen who is a resident of one of the 50 states can vote. Voting rights go with where you are a resident, not with your place of birth. So Puerto Ricans living in NY can vote and New Yorkers living in PR can't.
     
  34. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    Also if you are resident in Washington DC, you have no elected voting representative in Congress either, because DC is not a state and doesn't elect voting representatives. And up until 1961, you also couldn't vote for president either if you were a resident of DC. It took an amendment to the Constitution to even give DC residents that right.
     
  35. Gabriel Senior Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina / Español
    In Spanish we also have different words for "national" and "citizen".
    I wonder if there is any difference between "nacionalidad" and "ciudadanía" in Spanish in this context. None that I can tell.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  36. kalamazoo Senior Member

    US, English
    Even in English, there isn't any obvious difference between nationality and citizenship or between a "national" and a "citizen." In this particular case, it really is kind of a special technical usage, but in general usage I think English speakers would use them interchangeably. I would bet that 999 out of 1000 Americans have no idea what a "US national" even is. Probably close to 1000 out of 1000 have no idea!
     

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