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Is alif-maqsura ى a long-vowel ?

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by arabist-1, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. arabist-1 New Member

    England
    English
    Can alif-maqsura ى (ya without dots) at the end of a word, like: على on, be considered as a long-vowel ?
     
  2. AndyRoo Senior Member

    London
    English
    Yes it is a long vowel.
     
  3. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    According to the classic grammarians of the middle ages, ʼalif mamdūda means long /ā/ followed by hamza; in tajwīd it is longer than normal /ā/. ʼalif maqṣūra means final /ā/ not followed by hamza, regardless of whether it is written ا (as in دنيا) or as ى (as in كبرى). But, in most modern grammars, in Arabic and in European languages, the name ʼalif maqṣūra is applied only to final /ā/ when it is written with ى .
     
  4. arabist-1 New Member

    England
    English
    Understood, but can I call ʼalif maqṣūra means final /ā/ not followed by hamza, ى the 4th long-vowel ?

     
  5. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    No. From the point of view of phonology there are only three long vowels: /ā/, /ī/, /ū/. But /ā/ can be written in three different ways: ا , ى and zero (as in ذلك ) .
     
  6. arabist-1 New Member

    England
    English
    Ref: /ā/ can be written in three different ways: ا , ى and zero (as in ذلك ) .

    Assume in third example, assume you mean "implied" written, not actually written, but still sound, as in ذلك

    The invisable alif............
     
  7. paieye Senior Member

    England
    English - British
    I thought that مَكْسُورة meant in this context 'broken off,' indicating that the alif was to be halted abruptly. Is that wrong ?
     
  8. AndyRoo Senior Member

    London
    English
    It is مقصورة and yes it means "shortened". Apparently this is because although it is a long alif it tends to get pronounced short as the accent of the written word is never on the last syllable, plus it is also of course always shortened before a همزة الوصل.
     
  9. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    This is true in modern dialects, but not in Classical Arabic, and certainly not in tajwīd. As I attempted to explain above, ʼalif maqṣūra has this name because it is shorter than ʼalif mamdūda.
     
  10. AndyRoo Senior Member

    London
    English
    Oh yes, sorry you explained it perfectly and I didn't read it properly.
     

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